To think school uniform policy should be enforced?

[Runoverbyllamas]

Otherwise what’s the point?
Why bother to have a uniform, state it in detail online and in welcome packs, and then say nothing when kids aren’t wearing correct uniform?
We’re talking a state school with nothing needing to be logo, supermarket brands are fine and the colours are easily available.

A friend has had enough because she made sure her kids were dressed correctly and then others in the class were wearing leggings, trainers, wrong colours etc, and her kids were getting cross about it. On approaching the Head all she got was ‘be glad you can afford to get the correct uniform’. The kids who hadn’t were in premium brands ffs! Plus my friend actually saved to make sure she had the right things, she doesn’t have a lot of money to spare.
The school PTA also does preloved at very small cost to parents, so there’s just no excuse.
One of the more annoying parents of the kids in trainers told her that ‘PFB doesn’t like school shoes’ as if that’s a good enough reason.
This has been going on for at least a year now, and friend is getting more and more frustrated that nothing is being addressed.

AIBU?

Because her kids are kicking off about not being allowed to wear their trainers or leggings.

Then she needs to tell them they are following the rules even if others aren't. I couldn't get worked up about this.

Personally I think clean, comfy clothes in school colours so for us white, royal blue and grey is good enough.

I agree—a school with a lax attitude towards uniform and towards behaviour, with low standards and no expectations for parents. Not exactly going to produce decent results.

Yanbu. The lack of clarity helps no one.

Either have a uniform policy and stick to it, or dont have a uniform.

There's nothing more annoying than a website or school letter listing required uniform, spending money on expensive polishable shoes & a logo top etc, only to arrive and find other kids parents have just ignored the list and are in trainers.

Sadly OP state schools are over a barrel, many will feel that trying to demand people adhere to it will result in complaints that they are being exclusionary, and arent bold enough to enforce.

The lack of clarity helps no one. Actually in this instance, it is clearly helping those who can't afford the uniform, plus people who don't like wearing it!

When OP's children grown out of the official uniform then just buy the cheaper stuff. Lots of money saved and kids are happier so win win

@ActonSquirrel

Because her kids are kicking off about not being allowed to wear their trainers or leggings.

Then she needs to tell them they are following the rules even if others aren't. I couldn't get worked up about this.

No. She should just relax and let her kids wear their trainers and leggings just like the others.

Parents cannot dictate whether or not uniform policy is followed. When I was at school ties were compulsory for boys but optional for girls. So no girls wore the tie. However, my Dad tried to insist that because it was on the uniform list at all I would be made to wear it. All that that achieved was me waiting until out of sight of him every day and then just stashing it in my bag.

People need to chill out about this. It is perfectly possible to have a well behaved school getting good results without a ridiculous uniform that looks like something out of the 1950s.

@Runoverbyllamas

Otherwise what’s the point? Why bother to have a uniform, state it in detail online and in welcome packs, and then say nothing when kids aren’t wearing correct uniform? We’re talking a state school with nothing needing to be logo, supermarket brands are fine and the colours are easily available.

A friend has had enough because she made sure her kids were dressed correctly and then others in the class were wearing leggings, trainers, wrong colours etc, and her kids were getting cross about it. On approaching the Head all she got was ‘be glad you can afford to get the correct uniform’. The kids who hadn’t were in premium brands ffs! Plus my friend actually saved to make sure she had the right things, she doesn’t have a lot of money to spare.
The school PTA also does preloved at very small cost to parents, so there’s just no excuse.
One of the more annoying parents of the kids in trainers told her that ‘PFB doesn’t like school shoes’ as if that’s a good enough reason.
This has been going on for at least a year now, and friend is getting more and more frustrated that nothing is being addressed.

AIBU?

I think you're missing the point somewhat. You do not know the circumstances of these families. Maybe those trainers are that child's only shoes. Maybe those children do have branded items, but literally one outfit. Maybe its not down to finances at all, and these children are being neglected by their parents. Maybe they have other priorities.

What I can tell you is a massive amount of people are living in poverty in this country, many families have relied on the councils giving money to help keep their children fed in the current climate. With the uncertainty of whether the children will be in school or not because of covid, maybe they didn't see it as worth spending the money. I for one have half heartedly done the back to school shop both this year and last due to uncertainty of if the kids will even spend the entire term in school.

Whatever the reason this is an issue between the school and the parents, the children should not be questioned about their uniforms, because they're not likely to be able to change it. It's probably quite embarrassing for them.

Local academy chain has changed the uniform and logo of their flagship secondary school three times in the last few years. Uniform is eye waveringly expensive to start with and now they've whacked another logo change on it, and all of their primary schools. This is in an area with a very mixed catchment and some huge pockets of deprivation - and the transition period for old logos is running out fast.

That sort of shite is not fair on parents.

My kids' school has a fancy school cardigan which is a right bloody faff to get hold of - basically there's one shop in the village that supplies them, but they have to order from a specialist supplier as and when needed because it's got a coloured band through the neck, cuffs and waistband - so it's taken a couple of months to get our last ordered stuff through and ready. They're good thick quality cardigans though so I kind of don't begrudge that - just the faff factor. Rest of the stuff is fine as supermarket items.

As for pre-loved stuff - our PTA are fucking genuises in that they run a pre-loved Christmas jumper stall in late November in preparation for the horror of Christmas Jumper Day. PTA fundraiser, keeps the endless Christmas jumpers in circulation and means we don't need to run to the supermarket to try to pick one up when the kids have grown for the amount of wear they actually get (although I did eek out 4 years out of one, trying to kill the musical Jingle Bells button and then passed it to a. friend who has been trying to do the same for another 2 years now).

All those saying they may not be able to afford uniform - there are grants/free uniform available for those that are struggling.
It is not a surprise - all parents know if there is uniform in the local schools, so can prepare. I always see inform for sale or free on Facebook - it's not expensive for the basics in the right colours.

All those saying they may not be able to afford uniform - there are grants/free uniform available for those that are struggling

Ah the middle class view that thinks struggling is all about money that is available, completely ignoring the time and knowledge that is required to access it, and of course ignoring the reality that actually getting the support is not automatic

Inappropriate

This! People give away stacks of good condition uniform for free where I live. Kids grow fast so theres plenty of uniform available at very low cost. The local supermarket sells appropriate shoes cheaply too.

Sirfredfredgeorge

Uniform is given away free:

• at stalls by school
• on the local facebook page
• on the class list app
• on local whatsapp groups

This is communicated in letters and emails from school, widely by word of mouth, with adverts on the notice board by the local shops etc. Honestly you have to put effort in to not be able to manage to get some.

Detention as a solution is unacceptable. Sorry. The vast majority of primary aged children have no say in what they're wearing to school or what time they get there. Detentions for things out of their control is wrong. The same applies for secondary really. Many of the children won't be given correct uniform. Some of them will already feel uncomfortable about sticking out from their peers. Detention isn't the answer. I'd argue for more lax uniform policies all round.

Class differences don't cease to exist just because some of the external indicators are made slightly less obvious by a uniform policy. Those policies don't "level" anything. Creating the superficial appearance of a level playing field isn't the same thing as actually providing a level playing field. It's just sweeping those problem under the rug. Even if solving them isn't possible, acknowledging them openly is better than pretending they don't exist.

there are grants/free uniform available for those that are struggling

See this is another thing that really pisses me off.

Our local school uses a not insignificant proportion of their pupil premium to provide a 2 complete sets school uniforms for the child .

Were not levelling experience and providing the kids with an experience they might not have or extra tution. We are levelling their appearance.

Whilst we keep teaching children their education is dependent on their appearance we keep teaching kids to value appearances above education.

@LegArmpits

Uniform is ridiculous.

I agree 100%, but it's even more ridiculous to have it and then not bother to enforce it. That's far worse than no uniform.

@sirfredfredgeorge

All those saying they may not be able to afford uniform - there are grants/free uniform available for those that are struggling

Ah the middle class view that thinks struggling is all about money that is available, completely ignoring the time and knowledge that is required to access it, and of course ignoring the reality that actually getting the support is not automatic

My sister takes advantage of the uniform grants, she's never said it is hard to access. In fact, I think the schools contact those eligible directly, it's not difficult.

I dont get why uniform is apparently so much harder to come by than any other clothing.

Its available in so many ways, cheaply, supermarkets are absolutely full of it.

Do not kid yourself that many people can't get it. They are making a choice not to get it because they do not want to.

Now that may be fine where a uniform is clearly stated as optional. Where a uniform is suggested as required, why do people think the rules are not for them? It's an attitude that people carry for life, and actually social rules are important, they help us to live in large groups happily, safely and productively.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland agree. It's not about the uniform per se, it's teaching children the principles of following rules and that they are not 'special' and they can't do what they want just 'because.'
It's a life lesson.

It annoys me too. I think it makes the school look scruffy when children are turning up in the wrong uniform

I'm far more concerned with the results a school get and whether it turns out decent citizens than whether the children have slightly different uniform from each other. But the real answer of course is to abolish uniforms altogether.

[quote inappropriateraspberry]@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland agree. It's not about the uniform per se, it's teaching children the principles of following rules and that they are not 'special' and they can't do what they want just 'because.'
It's a life lesson. [/quote]
But it doesn't work like that when the rules you are enforcing are stupid. Schools will teach that much more effectively by having sensible rules and enforcing those.

Some children have sensory reasons for not wearing full uniform. Many of those children struggle enough with a school environment and them being there at all is a major achievement without fussing about someone wearing leggings or joggers rather than school trousers

inapproprateraspberry

Yes because despite perhaps being less well off than other people your sister is clearly responsible.
There are always people on mn desperate to defend lazy, feckless parents.

@MatildaIThink

I find it surprising how most of the children at my children's school whose parents claim that they cannot afford uniform etc. send their children in wearing £100+ trainers, with a £50+ backpack, the children have multiple other branded items etc. The families that cannot afford to buy new uniform almost always use the schools uniform swap shop which for the items with logos on only costs a pound an item if they show they are on various benefits and the only items school branded are a jumper and cap.

Charmless piece of benefit-bashing there.