To think school uniform policy should be enforced?

[Runoverbyllamas]

Otherwise what’s the point?
Why bother to have a uniform, state it in detail online and in welcome packs, and then say nothing when kids aren’t wearing correct uniform?
We’re talking a state school with nothing needing to be logo, supermarket brands are fine and the colours are easily available.

A friend has had enough because she made sure her kids were dressed correctly and then others in the class were wearing leggings, trainers, wrong colours etc, and her kids were getting cross about it. On approaching the Head all she got was ‘be glad you can afford to get the correct uniform’. The kids who hadn’t were in premium brands ffs! Plus my friend actually saved to make sure she had the right things, she doesn’t have a lot of money to spare.
The school PTA also does preloved at very small cost to parents, so there’s just no excuse.
One of the more annoying parents of the kids in trainers told her that ‘PFB doesn’t like school shoes’ as if that’s a good enough reason.
This has been going on for at least a year now, and friend is getting more and more frustrated that nothing is being addressed.

AIBU?

I think a lot of people are missing the point - it’s not about whether school uniforms are generally good or bad, it’s about a school stating they have a policy and then not enforcing it.

By the sounds of things, this is not an adjustment for a few children with sensory issues, or giving people a little bit of grace when you can’t replace a lost item with 24hrs notice.

If the school’s approach to uniform is relaxed, then the policy should clearly state this. It’s a shitty approach for people like the OP’s friend who has themselves saved up to buy the correct uniform, perhaps endured battles with the DC because they don’t like the uniform, only to find that other people’s routinely ignore the policy. It sends out a really bad message that rules are optional.

Our primary sends out a long list of uniform requirements to new starters, including many expensive branded items, but in practice they don’t enforce much of it. I give new parents the heads up on what is and isn’t necessary because it’s awful if parents on low incomes are stressing over buying completely unnecessary items.

@lannistunut,

Whilst people can use other ways of signifying wealth, it is still not as ‘in your face’ as one student wearing thousands of pounds worth of designer gear while another one is struggling day-to-day (and yes, this does actually happen).

There is significant positive research on the benefits of uniform, so dismissing it as ‘ridiculous’ is a bit….erm…..ridiculous. I agree that it is not unequivocal, but those who adopt a uniform are not doing it completely randomly.

It is also much easier to actually keep track of pupils when they are in uniform.

It is probably that the school have just decided this is not top of their list in a time of massive disruption and increased poverty?

Often policies are ignored when they are not too of the list.

I work in a school. I think uniform is extremely important. It's a leveller and helps to disguise the huge disparity between the haves and the have-nots.

What a pile of crap.

4 pairs of Nike leggings from the outlet only £15 (only £3 more than primark) each. Last forever and mo need for home clothing. Comfortable to wear with Knee supports for DD med needs and keeps them hidden. £3-5 pound a piece for primark tshirts. Wouldn't generally wear a jumper but otherwise £12 for a branded hoodie from local outlet or £10 for a primark hoodie... You could kit DD out for home and school without a school uniform for less than £60 quid, with spares.

School branded skirt £35 a pop and wont conceal knee supports. Branded socks (with inevitably will need replacement multiple times a year) £7. House tie £10 +spare+ plus hidden spare. School branded jumper£30 ish. I wont get change from £100 and I'd be lucky to get change from £200. And I've still got clothes for home to buy

If you think uniform levels, you haven't had to do the sums

Is it primary school? IME they do tend to be more relaxed and I'm not sure how you'd enforce uniform.
Secondary school is a bit different. At my kids school they get isolation for the wrong uniform, along with about a million other reasons. I just wish they put as much effort in to teaching as they do enforcing stupid rules. My daughter was sent to isolation due to her socks not being black.
Anyway if the school aren't worried why does your friend bother? I wouldn't.

They can’t legally enforce it in primary school (I’m guessing you’re alluding to primary anyway) so there’s very little the head teacher can do. School uniform is expensive and some people live in poverty so can’t afford school shoes, their children will only have one pair of shoes and that’s the pair they’ll wear to school.

I don't understand the problem here. If the school's policy is to let students wear leggings and trainers, and her children want to wear leggings and trainers, why can't she just send them off in leggings and trainers?

I'm very happy my son's school uniform isn't enforced. I buy a supermarket jumper for £4 when the logo one is £20 from one specialist shop. I can afford it but would resent paying for it, especially as loads get lost within the first week.

I can understand your friend's frustration.

She has bought the uniform and told her kids to wear it. Her kids are annoyed because it's not "cool" to wear the uniform correctly. But your friend says "You should follow school rules."

Except in this case, the school are almost undermining her by not enforcing this rule making it confusing that some rules have to be followed and some don't.

I think she is on a losing battle though and should let her kids slack off on the uniform like others. I do see though that it's difficult to explain why they have to follow some rules but not others.

@Hemingwaycat

They can’t legally enforce it in primary school (I’m guessing you’re alluding to primary anyway) so there’s very little the head teacher can do. School uniform is expensive and some people live in poverty so can’t afford school shoes, their children will only have one pair of shoes and that’s the pair they’ll wear to school.

I had assumed it was secondary as no one cares in primary do they?

If primary then the op is being silly.

One of the things that attracted me to my kids' secondary school was the fact that one of the promotional photos was of a lad happily chatting to the head teacher with his shirt hanging out.

It seemed like it might be a sensible place with a sense of proportion of rule enforcement - and it is.

@ShirazSavedMySanity

How do you suggest it is enforced?

Send the children home? It isn’t their fault.

This is exactly my thought process about uniforms.

The schools pretty much always try to enforce, if they do, via chastisement, isolation and detentions. But it is the parent not the child. I think this even at secondary school, unless they've spoken to the parent and the child is actively choosing not to wear uniform they actually have.

A. Just because someone is wearing a brand, doesnt mean they or their parent purchased that item or that they paid full price. Don't take things at face value

B. I understand your friend is frustrated because she saved to comply, but knowing that it isnt enforced she also has the choice not to. It isnt a bad thing to teach kids that sometimes there are work based conventions we have to comply with even if others don't because it is the right thing to do. In life they'll often see people doing the wrong thing and seeming to come off well.

C. The teacher saying that she should feel lucky she can afford uniform makes me think this is a school where many people can't, or the teacher knows some of those who breach it can't. Give teachers more credit - if they aren't enforcing for those kids there may be very good reason.

D. Yes there may be secondhand options, uniform swaps etc but that presupposes that a. The parent even has money or uniform to swap for that, b. The parent knows about it - not all are told or seek out info, even if they should, and it's hardly the kids fault, and c. The parent is bothered. Some kids don't have active parents. Again, not the kids fault.

All in all, it is always best to concentrate on making decisions for your own kids I think as if you're happy in those decisions what others do shouldn't impact you.

It does nothing to level students. Poor students are still poor and rich students are still rich. If you honestly believe that they don't know who the rich and poor students are because they all wear uniform you are deluded. Shoes, bags etc..... all mark out which students are different.

This. Also factor in stuff like phones, fashionable pencil cases etc.

People who work in non-uniform schools say it all shakes down to kids wearing whatever they find most comfortable, usually something like jeans and a sweatshirt.

@Caramellatteplease

I work in a school. I think uniform is extremely important. It's a leveller and helps to disguise the huge disparity between the haves and the have-nots.

What a pile of crap.

4 pairs of Nike leggings from the outlet only £15 (only £3 more than primark) each. Last forever and mo need for home clothing. Comfortable to wear with Knee supports for DD med needs and keeps them hidden. £3-5 pound a piece for primark tshirts. Wouldn't generally wear a jumper but otherwise £12 for a branded hoodie from local outlet or £10 for a primark hoodie... You could kit DD out for home and school without a school uniform for less than £60 quid, with spares.

School branded skirt £35 a pop and wont conceal knee supports. Branded socks (with inevitably will need replacement multiple times a year) £7. House tie £10 +spare+ plus hidden spare. School branded jumper£30 ish. I wont get change from £100 and I'd be lucky to get change from £200. And I've still got clothes for home to buy

If you think uniform levels, you haven't had to do the sums

It isn't a pile of crap. You're arguing a different point to me really and I've already addressed a similar comment.

I think the school has a really good attitude and is being sensitive to the needs of families who are on low incomes.

If she wants her kids to go to a school with a strict uniform policy, she can move them to one.

Whilst people can use other ways of signifying wealth, it is still not as ‘in your face’ as one student wearing thousands of pounds worth of designer gear while another one is struggling day-to-day (and yes, this does actually happen).

IME this is rare, and the kid in designer gear packs it in after a bit of pisstaking and/or when they realise that it's setting the designer gear up to get torn, grubby and quickly worn out.

@CrimeJunkie01

As long as kids are at school ready to learn, I couldn't give a crap what they are wearing tbh.

This. Other countries seem to manage to turn out well educated functioning adults without all the posturing over uniform we have in the UK.

I am actually not against uniforms, but only straight-forward ones - eg blue jumper, grey trousers/skirt/shorts and white shirt/blouse. No nonsense over shoes, blazers, ties etc and definitely no expensive items with logos.

Given how busy teachers are, I can't really understand how they even have time to fuss over uniform.

But if I had gone to the trouble and expense of buying a uniform for my child, they would be wearing it regardless of what other kids were allegedly doing or not doing.

Rules should be enforced, otherwise do not have the rules in the first place.

Secondary school is a bit different. At my kids school they get isolation for the wrong uniform, along with about a million other reasons. I just wish they put as much effort in to teaching as they do enforcing stupid rules. My daughter was sent to isolation due to her socks not being black.

Good grief, I wouldn't touch a school like that with a bargepole. I bet this is one of the schools that won't make any exception for children with sensory problems and/or learning difficulties, either.

I don't think uniforms are really a leveller. You could always tell the kids with the worn out uniforms that are too small for them.

And uniforms are so expensive for a lot of schools, even state comprehensives. I can't understand why so little has been done to address that over the years and can only think that successive governments have relied on schools making up budgets with rake-offs from their uniform sales.

It annoys me too. I think it makes the school look scruffy when children are turning up in the wrong uniform.
Our school is the same, no expensive stuff needed, simple rules but they can't seem to be upheld by the school or stuck to by parents. They should wear black trousers, skirts etc, but so many are in grey.
I understand that last year there was some give as it was pointless buying new uniform for it to end up not being worn, but I hope they tighten up a bit now.

Our school is the same, no expensive stuff needed, simple rules but they can't seem to be upheld by the school or stuck to by parents. They should wear black trousers, skirts etc, but so many are in grey.

Christ - what difference does it make?!

I’d be really cheesed off to have paid a fortune for uniform only to start school and find out it’s optional. What a waste of the parents money!

I think your friend should get over herself and I think the UK should get over its obsession with uniforms. As is always mentioned, many countries manage to turn out well adjusted well educated adults without it, so let's do that instead.

I find it surprising how most of the children at my children's school whose parents claim that they cannot afford uniform etc. send their children in wearing £100+ trainers, with a £50+ backpack, the children have multiple other branded items etc. The families that cannot afford to buy new uniform almost always use the schools uniform swap shop which for the items with logos on only costs a pound an item if they show they are on various benefits and the only items school branded are a jumper and cap.