To think school uniform policy should be enforced?

[Runoverbyllamas]

Otherwise what’s the point?
Why bother to have a uniform, state it in detail online and in welcome packs, and then say nothing when kids aren’t wearing correct uniform?
We’re talking a state school with nothing needing to be logo, supermarket brands are fine and the colours are easily available.

A friend has had enough because she made sure her kids were dressed correctly and then others in the class were wearing leggings, trainers, wrong colours etc, and her kids were getting cross about it. On approaching the Head all she got was ‘be glad you can afford to get the correct uniform’. The kids who hadn’t were in premium brands ffs! Plus my friend actually saved to make sure she had the right things, she doesn’t have a lot of money to spare.
The school PTA also does preloved at very small cost to parents, so there’s just no excuse.
One of the more annoying parents of the kids in trainers told her that ‘PFB doesn’t like school shoes’ as if that’s a good enough reason.
This has been going on for at least a year now, and friend is getting more and more frustrated that nothing is being addressed.

AIBU?

I hate school uniform and believe it’s a ridiculous waste of money, time and effort on everyone’s part but I totally see your point OP. It’s the same as any other rule - enforce it or don’t bother at all, or you just discredit not just this thing but all of the rules

@Clocktopus

DC school has a uniform policy but its optional. Provided the children are dressed in clothes that are comfortable, suitable for the weather, and allow freedom of movement then school don't mind. In the words of the headteacher - "you can learn maths and English just as easily in a hoodie as you can in a shirt and tie". They'd much rather children were in school, relaxed and learning, than lack of uniform (or unwillingness to wear uniform) becoming a barrier to accessing education.

I much prefer this sort of policy to one like my other DC school which micro-manages over whether or not a pair of shoes is actually a trainer and what shape of skirt constitutes "pencil skirt", and how many inches of tie are hanging below the knot. Lots of kids rebel about the uniform policy there and they seem to hand out countless uniform based demerits whereas at the school where its optional most of the kids wear full uniform by choice and, for those that don't, it's a non-issue.

👏👏👏

Ive never agreed with school uniform. Far better to just have a "dress code" of what is accetable. Some kids/parents will push the bondaries but that can be dealt with as and when.

Uniforms are for the military or for client facing organizations so you can tell who is your server/waiter/etc.

Because her kids are kicking off about not being allowed to wear their trainers or leggings.
Relentlessly.
If school don’t care then why even bother?

Well, indeed. So if I was her I’d let the DC crack on wearing what they liked.

Who cares? Never had this trouble at my secondary school in Scotland. We had a tie and a blazer but the school couldn't give a shiny shit about what you wore on your feet, be that trainers, jeans, converse, vans, doc martens. Same as on your legs, leggings and skinny jeans very much the done thing.

From what I see driving past the school recently it's still very much the same. Great school with great results

So let them wear trainers and leggings then?

It's all a waste of time imo. Teachers, I am sure, have better things to do than measuring how many inches a skirt is above someone's shin. It can all get absolutely tedious.

The head's made her position clear. In your friend's position I'd stop policing the leggings and trainers and let her kids decide. If your friend gets a complaint home from school that her child is unsuitably dressed then she can get involved again but until that point, why not just trust the child? I think it's quite good for my uber-compliant child to weigh up for herself whether she wants to take these sorts of risks, in a safe environment where the worst that can happen is a detention.

I don't agree with uniforms in school, clean and smart should be enough really, all this angst and needing this that and the other is diverting time away from learning which is what they're there for.
But I've been in a similar situation to your friend and saved up to buy the uniform as directed by the school - only to see my DD be one of the few wearing it and a lot of others wearing skinny jeans/leggings, hoodies instead of jumpers, trainers etc. And yes I was pissed off that I'd taken time, effort and money to get what they required when they weren't going to enforce it anyway so I needn't have bothered!
I did let it go when it came to replacement of things because if she could wear leggings and I didn't have to fork out for a new pair of trousers that was better for us quite honestly.
Until year 10 when the school board changed and they enforced the uniform to the Nth degree. That was though, infinity more troublesome and expensive!

I work in a school. I think uniform is extremely important. It's a leveller and helps to disguise the huge disparity between the haves and the have-nots. Our school is shite at enforcing uniform and it's heartbreaking to see the social struggles that some of the kids have as a result. On the one hand, it's a symptom and not the root of the problem I.e. those children who are excluding others on the basis of how "uncool" they are need to actually learn to be less shallow, less judgemental, less materialistic and more accepting and kind. On the other hand, having a uniform policy (which is upheld) is one easy way for schools to help reduce the impact of the wealth gap during the school day. It's the low hanging fruit. I appreciate that there's an argument that uniform stifles creativity, but I see little creativity from the families who flout the uniform rules. Those children are generally identikit copies with the same expensive branded leggings, sportswear, trainers etc. It's not the kids with hand-me-downs and Asda trainers for PE who are desperate to wear their own clothes.

There are families who cannot afford to put money aside to save for uniform. They need every penny and but the uniforms from asda etc. Your friend needs to concentrate on her own children focusing and learning whilst at school instead of what other children are wearing and what other parents can afford.

work in a school. I think uniform is extremely important. It's a leveller and helps to disguise the huge disparity between the haves and the have-nots.

That wasn't my experience at all, kids in DDs school after the new board took over punished kids who didn't have the correct uniform, including my DD when I had ya know, a job, and couldn't magic a pair of new shoes in the 24 hours I was given because I worked 14 hour shifts, had 2 in a row and sorry, but no way was I paying a premium for next day delivery! A few kids were isolated because their parents had to wait for payday.
That's not a 'leveller' that's the school actively pointing out and punishing kids who's parents can't afford to buy/replace uniform when demanded.

@IWantT0BreakFree a leveller when it’s demanded that parents have to buy badged uniform from a specific supplier? Suuure..

Surely it’s a simple as spending the £300+ normally on clothes/shoes that can be worn any day of the week?

[quote YerAWizardHarry]@IWantT0BreakFree a leveller when it’s demanded that parents have to buy badged uniform from a specific supplier? Suuure..

Surely it’s a simple as spending the £300+ normally on clothes/shoes that can be worn any day of the week?[/quote]
In fairness I'm speaking from experience of primary school and maybe it's different for secondary pupils. Most primary uniform (certainly the schools I've worked in and sent my kids to, and the school that the OP is actually about) does not have to be branded with school logos and can be obtained very cheaply or even for free at uniform swaps and other second hand sales held by the school/PTA. I'm not suggesting for a moment that it's right people should have to spend £300+ on uniform and I think all schools - primary and secondary - should be ensuring that their uniforms are cheap to buy.

I do think you've missed the point of my post though, and that of the OP, which is that it's not the families who would be at risk of struggling to meet costs who are flouting the rules. It's the ones whose children have £80 trainers and expensive branded sportswear. In the specific situations we are describing, yes it would be a leveller for those children to wear the same (non-branded) clothes as their peers who are less able to afford outfits costing hundreds.

@Maverickess

work in a school. I think uniform is extremely important. It's a leveller and helps to disguise the huge disparity between the haves and the have-nots.

That wasn't my experience at all, kids in DDs school after the new board took over punished kids who didn't have the correct uniform, including my DD when I had ya know, a job, and couldn't magic a pair of new shoes in the 24 hours I was given because I worked 14 hour shifts, had 2 in a row and sorry, but no way was I paying a premium for next day delivery! A few kids were isolated because their parents had to wait for payday.
That's not a 'leveller' that's the school actively pointing out and punishing kids who's parents can't afford to buy/replace uniform when demanded.

So they introduced a new uniform policy that meant your daughter's shoes no longer complied? And then gave you 24 hours to buy new ones? That's awful. But it's an example of the school being unreasonable and unfair in their application of the policy, rather than a demonstration of how uniform doesn't serve a purpose. My daughter's school recently changed their logo and have told parents that they are phasing out the old logo, so anything that was part of the old uniform will still be fine to wear until it's grown out of/replaced. Like any policy in any organisation, it can only work if it's applied with common sense and compassion.

My daughter has ASD there are certain aspects of her uniform she doesn't like so I don't force her to wear them. Maybe mind your own business ?

There are arguments on both sides.

The pluses of uniforms is that they are egalitarian, encourage good behaviour, and also make children more identifiable (and less likely to misbehave) outside school.

The minuses are the bore of enforcement, especially skirt length and the extra cost. To some extent, the cost is the same with a ‘dress code’ (how many of you took out (or sent out) your 16 year olds this summer to buy clothes for 6th form?).

I think the best option is to have uniform but enforce it sensitively. Of course, this is a total fudge, but many real world solutions are.

@IWantT0BreakFree

I work in a school. I think uniform is extremely important. It's a leveller and helps to disguise the huge disparity between the haves and the have-nots. Our school is shite at enforcing uniform and it's heartbreaking to see the social struggles that some of the kids have as a result. On the one hand, it's a symptom and not the root of the problem I.e. those children who are excluding others on the basis of how "uncool" they are need to actually learn to be less shallow, less judgemental, less materialistic and more accepting and kind. On the other hand, having a uniform policy (which is upheld) is one easy way for schools to help reduce the impact of the wealth gap during the school day. It's the low hanging fruit. I appreciate that there's an argument that uniform stifles creativity, but I see little creativity from the families who flout the uniform rules. Those children are generally identikit copies with the same expensive branded leggings, sportswear, trainers etc. It's not the kids with hand-me-downs and Asda trainers for PE who are desperate to wear their own clothes.

It does nothing to level students. Poor students are still poor and rich students are still rich. If you honestly believe that they don't know who the rich and poor students are because they all wear uniform you are deluded. Shoes, bags etc..... all mark out which students are different. If students could wear their everyday clothes or even a basic black tracksuit it would do more than a blazer, tie etc...... schools (especially academies) do this with uniform to weed out poorer students. No student gets a better education because they have a tie and blazer on, most other countries have a much better education system than we do and manage perfectly well with no uniform. A bully is going to bully no matter what. Be it over clothes, hair, make up, accent etc........ uniform makes no difference.

I say this as someone who has worked in pastoral care in schools for years.

It does nothing to level students. Poor students are still poor and rich students are still rich. If you honestly believe that they don't know who the rich and poor students are because they all wear uniform you are deluded.

There's no need to be rude. We're just having a discussion about school uniform.

I'm not deluded, I just have a different opinion than you on the subject.

@lollipoprainbow

My daughter has ASD there are certain aspects of her uniform she doesn't like so I don't force her to wear them. Maybe mind your own business ?

Same. My daughter wears leggings and trainers with her school shirt, cardigan and tie. She still looks smart.

DD has ASD, anxiety and hugely struggles with accessing school full stop. If wearing leggings and trainers means one less fight to actually get her there, then that's none of the business of the OP, or her "friend".

@LegArmpits

Uniform is ridiculous.

This sums up my view too.

I agree anyone who swallows the rubbish about uniform masking inequalities is completely deluded.

The school PTA also does preloved

Do they seriously call it preloved? What child (or parent) loves their school uniform?

And actually, thinking about my cohort from last year, it's probably very simplistic of me to hint that it's just about rich v poor. Some of the kids who were gatekeeping the "cool" group actually weren't from better off families than some of those who wore the uniform or wore cheaper leggings etc. Their families obviously just allocated their funds differently and whilst some families chose to spend money on designer gear for the kids, others didn't (or at least didn't send their kids to school dressed like that). In my experience (which may be different to yours but is not less valid), some of the problems that are faced by some students in school would be eased if a uniform policy was sensibly adopted and enforced.

Her children and her 'kicking off' about it is really really strange.

Several children at my dds primary don't wear the uniform. I have no idea why, neither do I care, neither does my dd.

I would hazard a guess that she's one of those people who complains about everything amd is never happy.

Because her kids are kicking off about not being allowed to wear their trainers or leggings. Relentlessly.
If school don’t care then why even bother?

Well, there's your friend's answer. Why does she bother? Does it make her feel superior to the other parents?