To think school uniform policy should be enforced?

[Runoverbyllamas]

Otherwise what’s the point?
Why bother to have a uniform, state it in detail online and in welcome packs, and then say nothing when kids aren’t wearing correct uniform?
We’re talking a state school with nothing needing to be logo, supermarket brands are fine and the colours are easily available.

A friend has had enough because she made sure her kids were dressed correctly and then others in the class were wearing leggings, trainers, wrong colours etc, and her kids were getting cross about it. On approaching the Head all she got was ‘be glad you can afford to get the correct uniform’. The kids who hadn’t were in premium brands ffs! Plus my friend actually saved to make sure she had the right things, she doesn’t have a lot of money to spare.
The school PTA also does preloved at very small cost to parents, so there’s just no excuse.
One of the more annoying parents of the kids in trainers told her that ‘PFB doesn’t like school shoes’ as if that’s a good enough reason.
This has been going on for at least a year now, and friend is getting more and more frustrated that nothing is being addressed.

AIBU?

Your friend sounds like a busybody who can’t manage the behaviour of her own children tbh.

Kids don’t get to pick and choose which school rules they follow.

The kids aren't the ones choosing which rules will be enforced. The school is. That's often how it works with petty rules in the real world. Those saying that children need to get used to following rules should keep in mind that they'll also need to get used to rules being enforced selectively or not at all, at the whims of whomever made them. Not all jobs require uniforms, but all jobs will have some amount of laxity or selectivity in their rules about something or other.

I still don't understand the "leveller" argument. Making things look level isn't the same thing as actually making things level. Many children aren't the slightest bit interested in designer clothes. And if they are, then so what? Teaching kids that logos don't matter, and that just because they want something doesn't mean they can have it, will serve them far better as adults than teaching them about the importance of uniformity.

Even if you want to run with the leveller argument - the school uniform rules go well beyond that!

I don't understand how making a child wear a blazer when it's 25C is good for the child.
Why insisting the child wears black shoes rather than black ankle boots or black trainers is good for the child - when they walk a fair distance in all weathers - it we were concerned about poor kids we would not expect them to but special shoes for school.
Why insisting on navy tights rather than black tights is good for the child.
Why insisting the parents spend £15 on school branded sports socks is good for the child and other bits of obscenely priced branded PE uniform is good for the child.
There are countless other stupid rules, that serve no useful purpose.

Schools have lost the plot on uniform - this is not about creating a level experience for poor kids - this is a corporate, vanity project and it's time the Gov put the brakes on this madness.

@Naptimenow

Because the whole point of a uniform is that everyone looks the same.

It ceases to be a uniform if you have some DC in boots, some in grey trousers, some in black, some with blazers off.

Having these rules in place also helps DC to understand how to follow rules that they don’t necessarily like and is good discipline.

[quote GreenLakes]@Naptimenow

Because the whole point of a uniform is that everyone looks the same.

It ceases to be a uniform if you have some DC in boots, some in grey trousers, some in black, some with blazers off.

Having these rules in place also helps DC to understand how to follow rules that they don’t necessarily like and is good discipline.[/quote]
I think you have massively missed my point

School uniforms should be abolished. Problem solved.

@pointythings

What my or any patient’s personal views on a particular uniform policy are or aren’t is irrelevant.

The point is that it is a school rule so it needs to be followed.

FWIW, I don’t see being expected to wear shorts or a blazer is some huge hardship. A strict uniform policy ime helps promote a culture of high standards and good discipline.

Having to wear shorts taught DS that sometimes in life you have to do things that you don’t want to do and you just need to get on with it.

Having to wear shorts taught DS that sometimes in life you have to do things that you don’t want to do and you just need to get on with it. Took him 7 years of wearing shorts to learn that? How did you know that he had finally got the message, did he stop moaning in the final term of Year 6...would you have insisted on shorts through secondary had he continued to moan? Did you try any other methods of explaining this life lesson to him or do you feel the indirect long winded way works best with him. I hope he is picking up on life lessons a bit quicker now, must be hard for him.

naptime this is what I don't understand. The uniform fans seem to think that British children are so slow to learn that they need to spend 12+ years learning to follow rules and how to dress. Other countries seem to manage to turn out functional adults without all the uniform rigmarole. I don't think British kids are that slow on the uptake at all.

[quote GreenLakes]@pointythings

What my or any patient’s personal views on a particular uniform policy are or aren’t is irrelevant.

The point is that it is a school rule so it needs to be followed.

FWIW, I don’t see being expected to wear shorts or a blazer is some huge hardship. A strict uniform policy ime helps promote a culture of high standards and good discipline.

Having to wear shorts taught DS that sometimes in life you have to do things that you don’t want to do and you just need to get on with it.[/quote]
Well, surely if it taught him anything it’s that people in authority can do whatever they like and there’s nothing he can do about it?

@pointythings

naptime this is what I don't understand. The uniform fans seem to think that British children are so slow to learn that they need to spend 12+ years learning to follow rules and how to dress. Other countries seem to manage to turn out functional adults without all the uniform rigmarole. I don't think British kids are that slow on the uptake at all.

I absolutely agree with this. We spend so much time looking at the needs of the child and learning theories and child-led curriculums - what difference does it make if they do it in leggings and trainers?

@Pumperthepumper

But the point is that there are always going to be things in life we have to do that we don’t want to.

I don’t particularly want to go to work every day. I’m sure DS would rather have worn trousers (or jeans and t shirt)- but he wore shorts as rules are rules and the role of a parent is to support the school’s expectations.

I also don’t like this idea that DC need to be protected at all costs from things they don’t want to do. There are things throughout a DC’s life that just need to be done, like brushing teeth and homework/revision.

A few generations ago DC would have been down mines. Having to wear shorts to school is hardly equivalent.

Pumperthepumper this. How much time is wasted in British schools policing uniform infringements? What's wrong with extending simple 6th form dress codes across the board? Once the novelty of wearing your own clothes wears off, they'll all just turn up in jeans/leggings/t-shirts/sweatshirts. And if bullying occurs, crack down on that - which schools should be doing anyway.

It's perfectly possible to raise kids who are not obsessed with brands. It's perfectly possible to have high standards and discipline without everyone being dressed identically - as evidenced by other Western European countries. The British love affair with uniform is part of its culture of appearance over merit and it needs to change.

[quote GreenLakes]@Pumperthepumper

But the point is that there are always going to be things in life we have to do that we don’t want to.

I don’t particularly want to go to work every day. I’m sure DS would rather have worn trousers (or jeans and t shirt)- but he wore shorts as rules are rules and the role of a parent is to support the school’s expectations.

I also don’t like this idea that DC need to be protected at all costs from things they don’t want to do. There are things throughout a DC’s life that just need to be done, like brushing teeth and homework/revision.

A few generations ago DC would have been down mines. Having to wear shorts to school is hardly equivalent.[/quote]
But we have reasons for those things: you work for money. Brushing teeth means they don’t fall out. Homework means more consistent learning (although I have thoughts on that too).

What’s the reason for uniform?

GreenLakes children don't need to follow petty rules about shorts to be able to do things they don't want to do, like homework. Schools, like parents, should pick their battles. Homework done, school attendance and behaviour good = important. What they're wearing, as long as clean, decent and weather appropriate = not important. Substance, not appearance.

@pointythings

Pumperthepumper this. How much time is wasted in British schools policing uniform infringements? What's wrong with extending simple 6th form dress codes across the board? Once the novelty of wearing your own clothes wears off, they'll all just turn up in jeans/leggings/t-shirts/sweatshirts. And if bullying occurs, crack down on that - which schools should be doing anyway.

It's perfectly possible to raise kids who are not obsessed with brands. It's perfectly possible to have high standards and discipline without everyone being dressed identically - as evidenced by other Western European countries. The British love affair with uniform is part of its culture of appearance over merit and it needs to change.

Absolutely! And I think there’s an argument that enforcing stupid pointless rules rather than creating discipline actually does the opposite. Surely if you don’t have the choice, you’re not being disciplined by wearing it?

What's wrong with extending simple 6th form dress codes across the board? Lucky you if your school saw sense by sixth form! - our school continued the madness with insisting upon formal business wear (which no one else wears anymore!) - apparently they are so dim they needed 2 years practice at wearing a suit...what a low opinion the school management must have of their pupils ability to get dressed. And there was no bloody choice all the schools close by had the same stupid rule. I don't know how they will cope with thinking while they are at Uni and wearing jeans and a t shirt.

But the point is that there are always going to be things in life we have to do that we don’t want to.

Of course there are but there is usually some reason for it. Even if it’s just habit like schools have uniforms and these tend to include blazers.

However being made to wear shorts till year 6 is so outside the norm, and not really suited to winter weather. You or you son must surely question why one particular school does it and not others. Also while blazers are a pretty normal uniform jacket, and can identify which school a pupil goes to, having to wear them indoors makes no sense, and is definitely impractical for some lessons. You can tell if a rule is ridiculous if another school functions with the exact opposite rule.

We were very lucky, naptime - our local 6th form just has the clean, covered, no bad language on shirts rule. And it's fine. If parents do their bit to raise kids not to be brand obsessed little fashion followers, things could change in a generation.

A few generations ago DC would have been down mines. Having to wear shorts to school is hardly equivalent.

I’m a way, I think it is. Most of the boys in my non-uniform primary school a couple of generations ago, wore shorts. Your son’s school uniform is harking back to those days. Probably there were people a couple generations after the first Mines Acts who thought children should still go down the mines!

our school continued the madness with insisting upon formal business wear (which no one else wears anymore!) - apparently they are so dim they needed 2 years practice at wearing a suit...what a low opinion the school management must have of their pupils ability to get dressed.

You’re probably lucky that this uniform was brought in so long after bowler hats ceased to be the norm for business gents.

If someone asked why my dd doesn't wear "proper shoes" I'd say she just doesn't like them. In reality they cause her sensory issues and would be a barrier to her going to school and feeling comfortable enough to learn. But I don't owe the nosy parent all of that explanation.

Times are changing, be happy they're at a school that's inclusive and that's spending their time teaching kids rather than policing outdated and pointless uniform regulations

How on earth does forcing a child to wear clothes that aren't even weather appropriate (shorts in winter/ blazer in summer) manage to teach them how to dress appropriately further on life?! As a side note, if I dressed my child like that outside of school, SS would rightly consider it neglect!

@CheshireChat

How on earth does forcing a child to wear clothes that aren't even weather appropriate (shorts in winter/ blazer in summer) manage to teach them how to dress appropriately further on life?! As a side note, if I dressed my child like that outside of school, SS would rightly consider it neglect!

Only neglect if you are working class and allowing your demanding dd to wear gingham dress in the winter, but not when you deliberately force your ds to wear shorts in the winter - that is now character building and teaching him (very subtly and crossing your fingers he can catch on within 7 years) that he has to experience things he doesn't want to do - even though this things are totally pointless and a bit mean and cruel. Not to worry - this is all about levelling up - it's all done for your own good! I bet all you poor people are looking forward to life getting better, put your shorts on please - you'll be better off in the long run. 😁

Naptimenow I agree with everything you said