To ask my almost 17YO to pay board?

[Icanflyhigh]

DD is 17 end of October. She started an apprenticeship earlier in the summer and earns £14.5k per year.

Apart from buying herself lunch each day (which she doesn't HAVE to do as there is food available to take from home) she has no other outgoings.

I have asked her to contribute £50 per week to the household, for that, she will have all food provided, washing done, all the hot water she can use, lifts to wherever she wants, pretty much whenever she wants them, a lift to and from work each day (we don't live on a bus route) and other usual stuff.

Well she's made me feel like the worst mother in the world for asking.
I've explained that we've lost her child benefit now, and I'm expecting her dad to stop paying maintenance too (not that his £17 a week makes a huge difference to be fair) but our outgoings have remained the same or increased.

On top of that I've asked her to pay her own phone bill. She had a brand new iPhone X in July on the premise that she would pay the bill. We haven't had a penny yet, but its attached to our BT account so if we don't pay it, we screw up our own credit rating.

The board I have asked her for will be put straight towards her driving lessons. I've already bought her provisional driving licence and she has a car waiting for when she has passed her test.

So AIBU for asking?
What would you do if she decides not to pay it? TIA x

@Rozziie

God, I feel so, so sorry for your daughter, OP.

Stuck in a rural area because YOU decided to move there and late to work because you're refusing to drive her in to teach her a lesson. What if she loses her job now? Great lesson! That'll learn her, eh?

You're short of money mostly because her dad won't pay maintenance. Instead of blaming him for that, or yourself for picking such a crap father for your child, that's her problem as well now.

I'm not surprised her boyfriend treats her like crap - look at the sort of people she has in her life! A dad who you think is exploiting her for money (and you're blaming your child for this, not your ex) and a hard mother who talks about her with contempt even though most people would be very proud to have a daughter who has landed a decent apprenticeship in a pandemic.

The lack of self awareness brings tears to my eyes, honestly. Everything is someone else's fault or problem, never yours. Can't wait for when you're posting here in six months about how your daughter is pregnant, unemployed, and living with her abusive boyfriend and how stupid and selfish she is, without even a hint of acknowledgement of what you did wrong.

Thats out of order and you need to get a grip. Tears to your eyes? FFS!

@stepupandbecounted

Some people have had crap childhoods with very little support and wish to keep continuing the hardship cycle because 'why should they have it any easier' therefore guaranteeing the shit parenting/deprivation/poverty continues in their families.

What a wonderful legacy to pass on to your children yet more 'tough love' will be meted out. And apparently no emotional intelligence or awareness by these posters of what they are actually doing.

I know what you're saying but this is a very middle class attitude. Some do it purely for the tough love life lesson, but most parents who charge board from their young adult children do it because that is a genuine reflection of the family's finances. Everyone needs to chip in. It might not be ideal but it is a normal part of family life for lots of people. Bear in mind in some cultures she would have been working from a younger age on OPs instruction. She really doesn't have it that bad. It's only for the middle class upwards that this is a shocking concept.

@Icanflyhigh

Varied responses..... Nice to get balance.

We had a chat last night. She'd told her dad I was charging £150! A WEEK, which explains why he was being so shitty.

Upshot is, she's decided she'll pay what I used to pay which was £25 a week and nothing more - despite me then being on less than half of what she earns now.

She will only give it to me in cash, she won't set up a direct debit and make a transfer either weekly or monthly.

And despite being paid on Tuesday this week (2 days ago) she can't afford to pay it this month.
So unfortunately for her I have prioritised my youngest two DC and they are having a much needed lie in this morning. Meanwhile she will be late for work having spent 25 quid getting there by taxi.

She will cut her nose off to spite her face, and it will be her loss - though I'm aware we might be in for a rough few days of tantrums and moods.

For all of those going on about driving lessons, the plan was always to pay for some driving lessons for her 17th birthday. Her paying board would have enabled us to pay for more for her, but it seems the general consensus is that I shouldn't be doing that, so I'll leave it with her.

I can guarantee she will squander her wages on takeaway, cinema trips and taxis to see her boyfriend (who treats her like shit).

And there was me trying to be a responsible parent and teach her some life skills. Ah well, can't win 'em all!

That was a petty thing to do to let her be late for work in retaliation. I am not surprised she’s with a boyfriend that treats her like shit, that’s how you treat her and so she thinks that love= being treated like shit.

I agree she should be paying board but more importantly I think you and she should be sitting down for a financial planning session now she is earning a fairly decent wage. For example, she should be looking at investing/ pensions now - the earlier she starts, the less she will miss it and boy oh boy will she benefit from it later in life. I tell all my graduates starting to put the maximum they can away now because you can NEVER plan on what happens in your life further down the line (early cancer for me and a decade of no pensions contributions as a result) - the scenarios of starting to invest/ pension early vs later in life are startling. She will likely never have this much disposable income ever again in her life.

I know what you're saying but this is a very middle class attitude. Some do it purely for the tough love life lesson, but most parents who charge board from their young adult children do it because that is a genuine reflection of the family's finances. Everyone needs to chip in. It might not be ideal but it is a normal part of family life for lots of people. Bear in mind in some cultures she would have been working from a younger age on OPs instruction. She really doesn't have it that bad. It's only for the middle class upwards that this is a shocking concept.

Hear hear @aSofaNearYou.
Some people are so eager to kick the OP that she's now a monster for living rurally ffs ....

A lot of posts on this thread moralising about "punishing" a child by needing some of her hard-earned cash are utterly oblivious to the fact that millions of families simply couldn't afford to do otherwise.
The remark upthread about "just because your child benefit has stopped you shouldn't expect her to pay" is a classic example. For many parents, that child benefit was food on the table, not discretionary spends.

And ... cue a flurry of posts claiming not to be MC or privileged - again, oblivious to the fact that privilege is invisible to the privileged.

No that's fine! Our 16yo has started up self employed and he's earning a good few hundred quid a week. He pays digs - £50 a week - on his own suggestion.

@aSofaNearYou
I know what you're saying but this is a very middle class attitude. Some do it purely for the tough love life lesson, but most parents who charge board from their young adult children do it because that is a genuine reflection of the family's finances.

But that isn’t the case with this OP. She has said from the start that she doesn’t need the money for household finances as she plans to put all of it towards driving lessons. So yes, in this case it is “tough love” although everything the OP has said about her 16 yo DD just drips with scorn and contempt.

OP I did the same with my 17 year old, it didn't do her any harm. She quickly turned in to an independent young women who travels the world for her career now.

My cousins son is 23 still lives at home, doesn't pay her a penny despite her being on benefits and ends up still bowing money off her.

And I would have done the same with making her get a taxi.

I'd also say she needs to play you double for the missed month and insist that's a bank transfer is set up because she will use the excuse that she hasn't got it in cash. It is a battle at the beginning but it will son pass when she gets used to it.

Its not so much tough love its allowing your kids to develop mental maturity and intelligence. I work with a 18 year old who literally rings her dad for money all the time then gets upset when the SM says no. then there is all day text arguing between her, her father and mother. Its embarrassing. It was raining the other day and she didn't want to get the bus home so was demanding her dad or mum pick her up - there is a bus station less than 200 meters away. On the phone to her mother constantly asking her to set up a GP appointment for one of her many ailments. Asking her mum to send over money so she can buy lunch as she has run out of money or getting her mum to top her bus card up so she can get home. She doesn't pay rent either.

When young people go in to employment the parents really need to encourage independence and self responsibility.

@ChargingBuck

I know what you're saying but this is a very middle class attitude. Some do it purely for the tough love life lesson, but most parents who charge board from their young adult children do it because that is a genuine reflection of the family's finances. Everyone needs to chip in. It might not be ideal but it is a normal part of family life for lots of people. Bear in mind in some cultures she would have been working from a younger age on OPs instruction. She really doesn't have it that bad. It's only for the middle class upwards that this is a shocking concept.

Hear hear @aSofaNearYou.
Some people are so eager to kick the OP that she's now a monster for living rurally ffs ....

A lot of posts on this thread moralising about "punishing" a child by needing some of her hard-earned cash are utterly oblivious to the fact that millions of families simply couldn't afford to do otherwise.
The remark upthread about "just because your child benefit has stopped you shouldn't expect her to pay" is a classic example. For many parents, that child benefit was food on the table, not discretionary spends.

And ... cue a flurry of posts claiming not to be MC or privileged - again, oblivious to the fact that privilege is invisible to the privileged.

She is being punished. It's not just about the money, it's the refusing to drive her because she had no money for board, when there's no viable public transport option. It's blaming her for her dad taking her money. The OP's initial post paints the child as a spoiled brat, but the latest updates have me feeling very sorry for her.

The girl must be incredibly confused. One minute she's being promised a car and driving lessons and has a fancy phone, the next she's suddenly being told the household won't function without her contribution. Which is it? Why is this being thrust on her now? Why wasn't she prepared for it? How is suddenly asking her for an arbitrary amount of money supposed to help her with budgeting or the future?

Now we're told the child has a boyfriend who treats her like crap, and that's apparently her fault as well. No compassion or empathy, no recognition of how having a useless dad who won't pay maintenance might contribute to her tolerating abuse. Just criticism of the money she spends to visit him.

My grandmother was petty and mean like this to my mum and aunt, and they in turn were like this with their children. It doesn't end well.

In my opinion YABU if you are going to charge her (which at 17 I don't agree with tbh) then it's not up to you to save for her driving lessons. Yes she should pay for her own phone. If anything I would just ask her to contribute towards the food bill. Depending on what/how often she eats at home.

@BunnytheFriendlyDragon

Why are you calling it "board" of its for driving lessons? Does she know this?

If you don't want a contribution to household expenses why not simply tell her she needs to pay for her own phone and driving lessons?

Its called board because that is what it is called!

I do expect a contribution to household expenses - and though initially what she pays will go towards additional driving lessons, this will not be forever.

I do wish folk would RTFT!!!

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@aSofaNearYou
I know what you're saying but this is a very middle class attitude. Some do it purely for the tough love life lesson, but most parents who charge board from their young adult children do it because that is a genuine reflection of the family's finances.

But that isn’t the case with this OP. She has said from the start that she doesn’t need the money for household finances as she plans to put all of it towards driving lessons. So yes, in this case it is “tough love” although everything the OP has said about her 16 yo DD just drips with scorn and contempt.[/quote]
No I don't see scorn and contempt, I see a mums who is starting to get a bit pissed off with how her 16 year old is behaving.

Some posters on here are determined to pick holes and see the OP as some one who hates her own child - its not that deep.

@Icanflyhigh why are you on less than half her wage?? Sounds like it's a YOU problem to be honest

Its not so much tough love its allowing your kids to develop mental maturity and intelligence.

It in fact tough love way to force maturity and has nothing to do with intelligence. Your post attempted to paint a picture of it being necessary, when it is one of the harshest ways of forcing maturity.

You don’t have to charge children rent and board to raise them into independent adults. I never did and two of my DCs have graduated university and are 100% independent and making their own way.

@Rozziie - It doesn't end well?

My now 26 year old is currently visiting whilst she is in the UK. We are going for coffee soon before I go to work I'm MN whilst she is getting ready. She loves me and I love her dearly. She too had to pay board at 17 (gasp!)

No driving lessons if she pays no board. Shame you can't cancel her phone! Life lesson time.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Its not so much tough love its allowing your kids to develop mental maturity and intelligence.

It in fact tough love way to force maturity and has nothing to do with intelligence. Your post attempted to paint a picture of it being necessary, when it is one of the harshest ways of forcing maturity.

You don’t have to charge children rent and board to raise them into independent adults. I never did and two of my DCs have graduated university and are 100% independent and making their own way.

I see yours went to uni and wasn't in full time employment .

@SyIviescup
Neither is the OPs DD as an apprenticeship is PT employment plus PT college, is it not?

And yes, my DC had PT jobs while in University (except for the SEN ones who truly couldn’t).

So not so different one is study at uni and work PT and the OPs DD is study at college and work PT.

I never took a penny off them.

[quote SyIviescup]@Rozziie - It doesn't end well?

My now 26 year old is currently visiting whilst she is in the UK. We are going for coffee soon before I go to work I'm MN whilst she is getting ready. She loves me and I love her dearly. She too had to pay board at 17 (gasp!)[/quote]
Are you just blind to this entire situation?

The OP's child is already in a bad relationship, at 16.

OP thinks her child's dad is using her for money, and instead of being angry with him, she's angry with her child.

OP passive aggressively let her child arrive late to work to 'teach her a lesson' instead of sitting down properly and talking to her.

It's not that asking working teenagers for board is universally terrible, it's the way all of this is being dealt with, the tone OP uses to talk about her daughter and the general attitude that it's somehow the child's fault that her father is so slack about maintenance.

I too know families where the kids were taught about finances, bank accounts and investments at an early age, including being expected to have a job and buy their own stuff from 15-16. This isn't like that, is it?

@SyIviescup
Shocked you don’t see the OPs obvious dislike of her DD. It’s just wrong to charge a 16yo rent and board. And no, she doesn’t need the money because if she did need the money none of it would go to driving lessons. It would go towards food, heat, water from day 1.

CAN YOU ALL STOP FOCUSING ON THE BLOODY DRIVING LESSONS!!!!

The plan, as said previously, was always for DH and I to pay for driving lessons for DD when she turns 17. WE HAVE NOT BOUGHT HER A CAR. If we can use her "board" to pay for EXTRA DRIVING LESSONS, it will benefit all of us immensely, especially her.
The sooner she passes her driving test, the sooner she gets some more freedom and will be able to leave this godforsaken village that we moved to over 12 years ago when it was on a bus route. Fast forward 12 years, cutbacks mean it now ISN'T on a bus route. THAT IS NOT MY FAULT.
The sooner she passes her driving test also means she will no longer require lifts to work every day and back again - let me spell this out. I have 3 x DC, only one is able to get a school bus, but hasn't done for the last 12 months due to Covid. The other has to be at school for 8.45am, DD needs to be at work for 9am. I cannot be in two places at once and there is not enough time from dropping DS at school to enable me to drive (rush hour) into city centre to get DD to work on time. Although it's only 5 or so miles, it can take anything from 15 mins to 1hr 30 mins depending on traffic. I have to CHOOSE whether DS is late for school or DD late for work, so it MAKES SENSE to get her driving ASAP and she can be responsible for leaving home on time to get to work. She won't have to pay for city centre parking either as there is a car park provided at her work place.
IS THAT CLEAR FOR THOSE WHO ARE FOCUSED ON THE DRIVING LESSONS?
For those that have mentioned, I am incredibly proud of the position DD has landed for an apprenticeship, so much so you wouldn't believe it. It hasn't been the easiest of times during her teenage years but I have ALWAYS done my best for her - there is a huge backstory (isn't there always) but this isn't the time or place for it. Suffice to say, there have been issues, she has chosen the wrong path on many occasions, and out of the two biological parents she has, I am the ONLY ONE who has been there consistently to pick up the pieces and help her stick things back together.
Yes there is some resentment on my side that, despite all of this, she still thinks the sun shines from her fathers ass, when she has witnessed him bareface lie to her, put everyone else before her etc etc, but again, that is not for here.
For the last 5 or so years m DH has been a wonderful SD to her and he has also supported her, hugged her when she's hurting, listened to her, tried to reason with her etc.
So for anyone that says I drip scorn and contempt when I speak of her, I really don't, but I do live in the real world and I know her - you don't.
I was the proudest mum out there when she got the phone call to say she had got the job - she was the only one who prepared for the zoom interview (everyone else was sat in PJs and wouldn't put their camera on) she got dressed in business dress, looked smart and ready - and she learnt that from me. I remain proud of her in every single way, and all I want her to do is play fair and contribute to the household that she lives in.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@SyIviescup
Neither is the OPs DD as an apprenticeship is PT employment plus PT college, is it not?

And yes, my DC had PT jobs while in University (except for the SEN ones who truly couldn’t).

So not so different one is study at uni and work PT and the OPs DD is study at college and work PT.

I never took a penny off them.[/quote]
@PlanDeRaccordement the apprenticeship is fairly unique in as much as it is all in-house - she doesn't have to go to college at all.
She is in FT employment of 40hpw and from the end of September she will be picking up a specialism within the company and will produce a detailed portfolio as part of this which will in turn become a qualification.

[quote wedwewerpink]@Icanflyhigh why are you on less than half her wage?? Sounds like it's a YOU problem to be honest[/quote]
@wedwewerpink when I was her age, I was on half the salary that she is now. And i paid HALF the board that has been requested from her.

"No I don't see scorn and contempt, I see a mums who is starting to get a bit pissed off with how her 16 year old is behaving.

Some posters on here are determined to pick holes and see the OP as some one who hates her own child - its not that deep."
@SyIviescup this is it exactly.
Of course I don't hate my DD, but you are so right in that I am getting incredibly pissed off with her behaviour. She is entitled, she is selfish at times, and yes, I take some of the responsibility for that, but I could never hate her.

By law an apprenticeship has to include training...which I see she is getting because you mention a qualification. She is still studying, not just working even though she is paid to study for that qualification.

So it’s not regular FT employment in my opinion and the U.K. governments which is why the apprentice minimum wage is seperate and so low. It’s set that way because the employer has tuition costs to bear for the study/training portion of an apprenticeship.