Am I a Karen?

[Magnoliamarigold]

Currently in a debate with a 19 year old nephew about transgender issues.

I believe gender is a social construct. But:

I don't believe in puberty blockers for 10 year olds.
I'm currently on my third IVF cycle and for this reason I'm not convinced young people (over 18) should take hormone replacement therapy.

Been reliably informed this makes me a Karen. AIBU?

@Mousetown

Can absolutely guarantee Meraas will feel very different if it was her name being constantly shit on, if she was always been tagged in and sent vile misogynistic memes, if people laugh when she has to give her name. She will claim to be absolutely fine with it of course. It’s very easy to say that when you know it will never happen.

Again, for the umpteenth time, your problem is with men who use the name as a misogynistic slur, not BAME people who use it to challenge racists who ‘shit’ on them.

@Meraas

Another personal attack. How unsurprising. Anymore 3 syllable word you’d like to prove you can spell? How about termagant?

If anything this thread has reinforced to me that I need to continue to support BAME women and that I”m not interested in fighting white women’s battle for them.

What a nice thing to say. I wonder how you’d feel if people were saying what you’re saying but with the races reversed.

Again, for the umpteenth time, your problem is with men who use the name as a misogynistic slur, not BAME people who use it to challenge racists who ‘shit’ on them

You haven’t responded to what I have written. Would you be fine with it if it was your name?

your problem is with men who use the name as a misogynistic slur, not BAME people who use it to challenge racists who ‘shit’ on them.

There's nothing noble about anyone using a misogynistic slur about women as a whole. It doesn't and never has just meant "racist woman". The slur is misogynistic whenever it is used, however righteously.

@SquirryTheSquirrel

'Karen' is a horrible misogynistic term. Anyone who uses it to shut women down is BU.

This. OP can still be wrong though.

DrSbaitso

Thanks, but if you can’t the tell the difference between spelling errors and typos then you have no business correcting anyone and feeling superior because you can spell virago.

Plus ca change...

It’s ‘plus ça change’, actually, the c should be a cedilla.

I didn't know you were BAME. I am responding only to what you're saying. But you can rest assured that while I might rip apart what you say, I will never use or defend a racist slur.

I don’t think you could rip apart a paper envelope, all you’ve shown is that you see yourself as superior to BAME people.

@Mousetown

Again, for the umpteenth time, your problem is with men who use the name as a misogynistic slur, not BAME people who use it to challenge racists who ‘shit’ on them

You haven’t responded to what I have written. Would you be fine with it if it was your name?

Who knows? I can’t read the future or ‘ifs’.

Of course you wouldn’t be happy if this happened to your name.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

And how about we just don’t shit on each other? Call out racists for being racist, but don’t be a cunt to a whole other group of people while doing so.

Exactly.

And yet more hypocrisy and sly behaviour. Saying don’t shit each on other and yet calling me a cunt in the same sentence. You’re so transparent.

@Mousetown

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Exactly this! Well said.

What a nice thing to say. I wonder how you’d feel if people were saying what you’re saying but with the races reversed.

Well, do you see anyone advocating for BAME people on this thread? No, so why do you expect more from me?

Jesus the post was deleted as I was responding to it..what was it deleted for exactly?

Why not tell us your name and we can post some really nasty memes using your name as derogatory term? Maybe we can all start using it on mumsnet to describe people who are racist, or women we just don’t like. You wouldn’t like it, would you? When we hear your name we can all have a good laugh. You would probably report it to mumsnet as bullying, which it is. We won’t do that though, because we are grown women, not children.

And I wasn’t calling you a cunt. I was describing behaviour as cuntish.

[quote CBUK2K2]I've no idea if you're a Karen, but science says you're mistaken if you think gender is a societal construct.

It's pretty well settled science that as a country becomes more egalitarian the gender differences actually grow rather than diminish.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30206941/[/quote]
This was really interesting, thanks.
In the time between posting this and coming back to your responses I’ve had a long and calm conversation with my nephew who it turns out wants to transition to female, including a hormone regime.
We have been having conversations around transgender issues for several days now, but the coming out as trans kind of blindsided me - and is a conversation that could only be had with me rather than the parents (my older brother and sister in law). She (wants me to refer to her as ‘she’) came out as bisexual two years ago and is feminine but I didn’t really see it coming.
For context, we are a black and mixed race and fairly conservative church going family. ‘Karen’ as far as I am aware was used as a way of saying ‘old fashioned’.

This thread took a bit of a tangential turn around the use of ‘Karen’- but I was hoping to turn to this community of parents about the issue of hormones for a young person (but over 18).
Our earlier conversations around puberty blockers for prepubertal children now make sense.
I am very very concerned about the hormones - as I said I am having IVF and have some real concerns about the long lasting impacts of gonadotropin etc on long term health including the future risks of cancer. I am happy to support her through a transition, but my red line is hormones. I would welcome input from some of the people on here who have said I am indeed a ‘Karen’ because of this viewpoint. Particularly anyone with medical knowledge of this issue.

@Raggedyanabell

Jesus the post was deleted as I was responding to it..what was it deleted for exactly?

Yep, who cares if I’m called a cunt. Just another BAME person with the temerity to have an opinion.

@Raggedyanabell

Jesus the post was deleted as I was responding to it..what was it deleted for exactly?

I said we shouldn’t be cunts to each other 🤷‍♀️

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

Eye roll at this needlessly provokative thread

Same 😂

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

"I have an opinion that loads of people on here hold, I want to post it on a board where I know I'll get lots of agreement and attention and start another 'debate' about trans people AIBU"

Yes, you are. If you're so sure of your opinion why do you need validation?

This 😂

@Mousetown

Why not tell us your name and we can post some really nasty memes using your name as derogatory term? Maybe we can all start using it on mumsnet to describe people who are racist, or women we just don’t like. You wouldn’t like it, would you? When we hear your name we can all have a good laugh. You would probably report it to mumsnet as bullying, which it is. We won’t do that though, because we are grown women, not children.

And I wasn’t calling you a cunt. I was describing behaviour as cuntish.

It’s amusing that you think anything you could say would affect me. Your opinion, your views, your insults all show that there is nothing of worth or consequence or value.

Tell your nephew you won’t engage in any conversation with him if he uses that pathetic hateful misogynistic term. OP you shouldn’t be asking if it “makes you a Karen” you should be shutting down any twat /dimwit that uses that term to you.

@Meraas

DrSbaitso

Thanks, but if you can’t the tell the difference between spelling errors and typos then you have no business correcting anyone and feeling superior because you can spell virago.

Plus ca change...

It’s ‘plus ça change’, actually, the c should be a cedilla.

I didn't know you were BAME. I am responding only to what you're saying. But you can rest assured that while I might rip apart what you say, I will never use or defend a racist slur.

I don’t think you could rip apart a paper envelope, all you’ve shown is that you see yourself as superior to BAME people.

I'll cop to being lazy with copy and pasting accents on my phone, but I thought we were having a discussion about the Karen term and how it is the go to anti-woman insult for thick people, which it is. It was a few posts on before you turned it into The Meraas Show: Superego Three-Syllable Words And Shit Typing Edition. Set the goalposts from the start next time and at least I'll know what game we're playing.

As for the accusation of racism, I'm not even going to dignify such horseshit. My posts are there in the open and people can decide for themselves.

@Meraas

Who have I insulted? Can you quote it Neo?

You’ve insulted every woman called Karen for a start. Call a racist a racist, don’t use misogynistic language which you’ve been told is hurtful to others as you instantly lose any argument you try to make.

You being a victim of racism does not give you or anyone else the right to abuse others.

Your opinion, your views, your insults all show that there is nothing of worth or consequence or value

Okay Meraas