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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Am I a Karen?

375 replies

Magnoliamarigold · 31/08/2021 12:14

Currently in a debate with a 19 year old nephew about transgender issues.

I believe gender is a social construct. But:

I don't believe in puberty blockers for 10 year olds.
I'm currently on my third IVF cycle and for this reason I'm not convinced young people (over 18) should take hormone replacement therapy.

Been reliably informed this makes me a Karen. AIBU?

OP posts:
Bloodypunkrockers · 31/08/2021 17:52

@grey12

It is misogynistic but that's not what it means. It means behaving incredibly entitled, *sshole-ish and antisocial, which is not the case here
That's not how people use it though

It's certainly not the case in the OP

DrSbaitso · 31/08/2021 18:03

@grey12

It is misogynistic but that's not what it means. It means behaving incredibly entitled, *sshole-ish and antisocial, which is not the case here
It means what people use it to mean. And people use it to mean any woman talking when they think she shouldn't be.

It's just the latest word for nag, scold, harpy etc. Plus ca change...

grey12 · 31/08/2021 18:03

When I watch YouTube videos it's definitely seen that way (and unfortunately it has become very common for people to behave like that.......)

I would tell the nephew he needs to crack open "urban dictionary" once in a while Wink

Raggedyanabell · 31/08/2021 18:07

@Meraas
It should be pretty simple to understand that you should not dictate to victims of racism on how they respond to the racist.

Errr it should be pretty simple to understand that you should not dictate to the victims of misogyny on how they respond to the misogynist..

Or is it ok to respond to one kind of hatred with another kind? Is it justified hatred?

Raggedyanabell · 31/08/2021 18:11

Racism is soul destroying, most people have no idea, and if someone wants to call the racist a Karen then that's their prerogative.

You seem to have a real problem, Jesus, it's not too trumps! And even if it were...racism doesn't trump misogyny.
While women are being raped and murdered and mutilated on a daily basis merely for being female, I will never be belittle misogyny in any form.

Meraas · 31/08/2021 18:12

[quote Raggedyanabell]@Meraas
It should be pretty simple to understand that you should not dictate to victims of racism on how they respond to the racist.

Errr it should be pretty simple to understand that you should not dictate to the victims of misogyny on how they respond to the misogynist..

Or is it ok to respond to one kind of hatred with another kind? Is it justified hatred?[/quote]
Where have I dictated to anyone?

Neotraditional · 31/08/2021 18:46

@meeras Equally, asking people to understand that sometimes BAME people need to use the word isn't silencing them.

No, you font ‘need’ to use the word and if you know others find it offensive nor should you. It’s very ignorant of you to bemoan racism while insulting others.

Neotraditional · 31/08/2021 18:48

Sorry, that should read ‘don’t’

DrSbaitso · 31/08/2021 18:58

Getting into shit Top Trumps? That's nothing to do with being anti racist and everything to do with exploiting racism in an attempt to trivialise and legitimise the Karen crap. Nice.

We need to bring back "virago". It's just another one of those, but I've always thought the sound is quite nice, and the Karen lovers and apologists will find it too difficult since it's three whole syllables.

Meraas · 31/08/2021 19:00

Who have I insulted? Can you quote it Neo?

Meraas · 31/08/2021 19:01

@DrSbaitso

Getting into shit Top Trumps? That's nothing to do with being anti racist and everything to do with exploiting racism in an attempt to trivialise and legitimise the Karen crap. Nice.

We need to bring back "virago". It's just another one of those, but I've always thought the sound is quite nice, and the Karen lovers and apologists will find it too difficult since it's three whole syllables.

I would outspell you any day DrSbaitso.
Raggedyanabell · 31/08/2021 19:05

Where have I dictated to anyone?

Women who've been on the receiving end of the misogynistic slur 'Karen' have explained over and over again how it affects them and how they've been derided and shut down immediately with that one word. Women who are actually called Karen have also expressed how they've been negatively affected by this awful behaviour.
You have chosen to spend the thread dictating to women that 'Karen' is an acceptable slur. It's not.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/08/2021 19:06

Of course it does. A Karen is just a woman who says something you don't like, and whom you wish to shut down with the ancient "mouthy obstreperous woman" stereotype. It's the go to misogynistic insult for thick people, now that "your mum" is a bit dated.

Yes.

DrSbaitso · 31/08/2021 19:08

I would outspell you any day DrSbaitso.

I truly cannot tell whether this is supposed to sound like a crap John Wayne or not.

Arrowheart · 31/08/2021 19:10

YABU for using Karen.

Meraas · 31/08/2021 19:11

@Raggedyanabell

Where have I dictated to anyone?

Women who've been on the receiving end of the misogynistic slur 'Karen' have explained over and over again how it affects them and how they've been derided and shut down immediately with that one word. Women who are actually called Karen have also expressed how they've been negatively affected by this awful behaviour.
You have chosen to spend the thread dictating to women that 'Karen' is an acceptable slur. It's not.

And yet not one on this thread has expressed any sympathy for victims of racism. But that’s fine with you apparently.

I haven’t dictated to anyone, I’ve responded to posts directed at me, some of which have been condescending, rude and patronising. But the superiority here towards BAME people daring to express their opinion doesn’t surprise me.

Meraas · 31/08/2021 19:12

@DrSbaitso

I would outspell you any day DrSbaitso.

I truly cannot tell whether this is supposed to sound like a crap John Wayne or not.

I truly cannot tell why you would brag that you know an easy word like virago.
Squills · 31/08/2021 19:14

@Raggedyanabell

Where have I dictated to anyone?

Women who've been on the receiving end of the misogynistic slur 'Karen' have explained over and over again how it affects them and how they've been derided and shut down immediately with that one word. Women who are actually called Karen have also expressed how they've been negatively affected by this awful behaviour.
You have chosen to spend the thread dictating to women that 'Karen' is an acceptable slur. It's not.

Excellent post.

For those curious to see how it feels to have their own name used as a slur follow the link below.

karenismyname.org/renamer

DrSbaitso · 31/08/2021 19:17

I truly cannot tell why you would brag that you know an easy word like virago.

We've established that there are plenty of things you can't tell. Is this all you've got?

grey12 · 31/08/2021 19:23

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Of course it does. A Karen is just a woman who says something you don't like, and whom you wish to shut down with the ancient "mouthy obstreperous woman" stereotype. It's the go to misogynistic insult for thick people, now that "your mum" is a bit dated.

Yes.

Go read "urban dictionary " definition

Some people misuse it

Meraas · 31/08/2021 19:23

Another personal attack. How unsurprising. Anymore 3 syllable word you’d like to prove you can spell? How about termagant?

If anything this thread has reinforced to me that I need to continue to support BAME women and that I”m not interested in fighting white women’s battle for them.

Mousetown · 31/08/2021 19:31

Can absolutely guarantee Meraas will feel very different if it was her name being constantly shit on, if she was always been tagged in and sent vile misogynistic memes, if people laugh when she has to give her name.
She will claim to be absolutely fine with it of course. It’s very easy to say that when you know it will never happen.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/08/2021 19:31

Go read "urban dictionary " definition

Some people misuse it

It was a term created by a sad man on Reddit who hated his ex wife. Hope that helps.

Raggedyanabell · 31/08/2021 19:32

And yet not one on this thread has expressed any sympathy for victims of racism. But that’s fine with you apparently.

I haven't seen any racism apologists on this thread the way there have been misogyny apologists...which is the reason for people explaining their stance against the 'Karen' slur. I'm sure if there were posts excusing racist language there are many of us who would call that out too which I guess is what you are referring to as 'sympathy'?

I haven’t dictated to anyone, I’ve responded to posts directed at me, some of which have been condescending, rude and patronising. But the superiority here towards BAME people daring to express their opinion doesn’t surprise me.

You've been responding to posts and people have been responding to your posts too by explaining that misogyny is not an acceptable response to racism...to which you've accused them of "dictating".
I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say "superiority here towards BAME people daring to express their opinion doesn’t surprise me." People are allowed to disagree with you and people are allowed to call out misogyny, regardless of your/their race. And as has been explained 'Karen' is used in just that way-towards women dating to express their opinion.
I've experienced racism and I've experienced misogyny..there is no top trumps, no competition between victims of hatred and abuse. It is all shit and it is all unacceptable.

DrSbaitso · 31/08/2021 19:40

@Meraas

Another personal attack. How unsurprising. Anymore 3 syllable word you’d like to prove you can spell? How about termagant?

If anything this thread has reinforced to me that I need to continue to support BAME women and that I”m not interested in fighting white women’s battle for them.

"Any more" is two words. "I'm" has only one apostrophe. "Word" should have been plural and "battle" probably should have been as well. There should be a comma after "anything". (I don't like "termagant". It doesn't sound very nice and I did explain that I like the sound of "virago".)

I don't normally care about that sort of stuff, but if you are going to try to declare your superior word power, don't fuck it up. You also made the first personal attack, if you're going to get offended about that, and your entire presence on this thread is dedicated to defending misogynistic personal attacks.

I didn't know you were BAME. I am responding only to what you're saying. But you can rest assured that while I might rip apart what you say, I will never use or defend a racist slur.