Am I a Karen?

[Magnoliamarigold]

Currently in a debate with a 19 year old nephew about transgender issues.

I believe gender is a social construct. But:

I don't believe in puberty blockers for 10 year olds.
I'm currently on my third IVF cycle and for this reason I'm not convinced young people (over 18) should take hormone replacement therapy.

Been reliably informed this makes me a Karen. AIBU?

Anyone who uses the misogynistic term "Karen" has instantly lost any argument.

I've answered your questions.

You did and when I said, not asked, that it didn’t make sense to use it as you did, you followed up with telling me it didn’t have to. So I responded to, once again, your comment.

You telling me 'it stands to reason that you would be the obvious first port of call in my journey to understanding your choice of language' implies that you think that it's my job, even if you don't say it.

No, it was me explaining why I asked the person who used the term, to explain the term.

Please don't use 'Karen'. It is a misogynistic term to shut women down and keep them in their place.

Women using it simply perpetuates it

Karen whatever it's orgins does now seem to be used to shut women up.

@MrsRobbieHart

I've answered your questions.

You did and when I said, not asked, that it didn’t make sense to use it as you did, you followed up with telling me it didn’t have to. So I responded to, once again, your comment.

You telling me 'it stands to reason that you would be the obvious first port of call in my journey to understanding your choice of language' implies that you think that it's my job, even if you don't say it.

No, it was me explaining why I asked the person who used the term, to explain the term.

You asked why John etc couldn't used instead. I offered a possible explanation. It's not my job to make sure it makes sense to you. It's a term that empowers black/Asian people to confront racists, so it make sense to me.

Whatever meaning ascribed to the term ‘Karen’, the fact is that if does upset women who have that name. That should be enough of a reason not to use it. Would you like it if it was your name that was used like that?

It's a term that empowers black/Asian people to confront racists

By using ageism and misogyny. So hugely problematic.

Call a racist a racist. It’s pretty simple.

@TheKeatingFive

It's a term that empowers black/Asian people to confront racists

By using ageism and misogyny. So hugely problematic.

Call a racist a racist. It’s pretty simple.

It should be pretty simple to understand that you should not dictate to victims of racism on how they respond to the racist.

@slashlover

Fancy returning to the post *@Magnoliamarigold* or are you just enjoying the fallout?

Indeed.

Same names, same arguments every time on these threads.

Emotive subject that always causes a blow up.

See also
Sahm Vs wohm
My golly is just a special childhood toy
Do I eat too much?
How much wine do you drink a week?
My pil are awful
Is my child fat?
School closures due to covid
Anti vaxers
Breastfeeding Vs bottle feeding
I've been invited to the evening of a wedding

I could go on and on.

Mumsnet - by parents - for parents that like to be right about everything.

Clearly I am tired and grumpy today.

It should be pretty simple to understand that you should not dictate to victims of racism on how they respond to the racist.

Erm, no.

You don’t counter prejudice with different prejudice.

That’s … ridiculous.

@TheKeatingFive

It should be pretty simple to understand that you should not dictate to victims of racism on how they respond to the racist.

Erm, no.

You don’t counter prejudice with different prejudice.

That’s … ridiculous.

You are dictating. Again.

Racism is soul destroying, most people have no idea, and if someone wants to call the racist a Karen then that's their prerogative.

@TheKeatingFive A Karen isn't a random middle age woman, it's a specific type of social justice warrior, perpetually offended, can I speak to the manager type of woman.

Also, it's a term I've heard/seen more women than men use.

You asked why John etc couldn't used instead. I offered a possible explanation. It's not my job to make sure it makes sense to you. It's a term that empowers black/Asian people to confront racists, so it make sense to me.

Yes I know all this. You’ve said. You seem to be getting confused about where we are in this conversation. I was simply explaining to you why I asked you to explain the term. I’m not asking you anything. I was explaining my own post.

Racism is soul destroying

Ageism and misogyny aren’t a walk in the park either.

We all know that racism isn’t restricted to middle aged women, correct?

So why use a term that suggests it is?

Call a racist a racist and be done with it.

Says more about your misogynistic, ageist nephew than it does about you.

But why are you explaining it to me, MrsR? I didn't ask you to explain anything.

a Karen isn't a random middle age woman, it's a specific type of social justice warrior, perpetually offended, can I speak to the manager type of woman.

And no men or younger women display these behaviours? Is that it?

Also, it's a term I've heard/seen more women than men use.

Internalised misogyny is unfortunately an enormous problem. We need to challenge it.

@Meraas it empowers black and Asian women? Oh well that's absolutely fine then. Nevermind all the women named Karen who get the piss taken out them and have had their name hijacked. As long as it's empowering someone it doesn't matter that it causes problems for thousands of others eh?
Racists are just called racists there's no need to use the name Karen.

@TheKeatingFive

Racism is soul destroying

Ageism and misogyny aren’t a walk in the park either.

We all know that racism isn’t restricted to middle aged women, correct?

So why use a term that suggests it is?

Call a racist a racist and be done with it.

You are now trying to explain ageist and misogyny to me too, it really isn't necessary, I'm an older woman.

You are still dictating too.

[quote Crabbitcrab]@Meraas it empowers black and Asian women? Oh well that's absolutely fine then. Nevermind all the women named Karen who get the piss taken out them and have had their name hijacked. As long as it's empowering someone it doesn't matter that it causes problems for thousands of others eh?
Racists are just called racists there's no need to use the name Karen.[/quote]
Yes, it's abolsoutely fine with me. If you have issues with it, take it up with men.

Racism is soul destroying, most people have no idea, and if someone wants to call the racist a Karen then that's their prerogative.

But this literally makes no sense. You can’t take one lot of prejudice and then make other prejudiced remarks about a group that may or may not be involved and not expect to be picked up on it.

You are still dictating too.

What does that even mean?

We should absolutely call out racism. What we shouldn’t do is use a term that suggests racism is more prevalent/problematic among middle aged women. Or do you actually believe that’s the case?

@Shirleyphallus

Racism is soul destroying, most people have no idea, and if someone wants to call the racist a Karen then that's their prerogative.

But this literally makes no sense. You can’t take one lot of prejudice and then make other prejudiced remarks about a group that may or may not be involved and not expect to be picked up on it.

How are they not involved if they are displaying racist behaviour? That is what literally makes no sense.

How are they not involved if they are displaying racist behaviour?

I refer you to the OP

@TheKeatingFive

You are still dictating too.

What does that even mean?

We should absolutely call out racism. What we shouldn’t do is use a term that suggests racism is more prevalent/problematic among middle aged women. Or do you actually believe that’s the case?

You're saying a word is forbidden, you don't get to make that call.

Your interpretation of the word is your own.