'Are dads invited too?'

[SyIviescup]

So the class watsap is starting to wake up. The majority are women but there a few dads floating about in it. That don't really contribute to the group at all.

There are a few of us who are friendly - not besties but enjoy going for lunch before pick up (if we can) or evening drinks/ meal out (term time as we all seem to disappear during the long summer holidays)

If we organise a play date outing such as at a play area/park ect its an open invite everyone is invited mums & dads, siblings- anyone.

But if a few of us fancy having a 'mums' night out, we have to extend it to the rest of the mums on the group, so they don't feel left out then the same two women ask if 'the dads can come too?'

Which changes the dynamics of the group. I've nothing against either blokes, they are nice, I chat to them at school but its just not the same. The last time they came, we/I was told that more male friendly/fun stuff should be organised like a night out go carting. I did say to him that he was welcome to organise that but it never came to fruition.

Im not the class rep, its not down to me to organise events that men would like, I don't know why they organise fuck all then expect to come out and sit with 10 women and then moan that they could be doing something more 'fun'.

Message this morning -

Person A - Hi every one hope you all had a great summer, a few of us are thinking about have a mums meal and drinks night out for a catch up on the xxxx, if you fancy it let me know so I can book table.

Person B - I'd love too, can dads come too.

@DontDrinkDontSmokeWhatDoIDo why would you have a problem if a mum and dad came together to an event, organised by the parent group?

If DS's class had a parent WhatsApp group (he is a teenager so long past that), either DH or I would be on it, but probably not both, to save us both getting notifications, but we would share with each other the info on there, and if a parent social was organised we would both go if it was something we both liked and we are both free. Are you saying only the person on the actual WhatsApp group should go?

Bearing in mind the main reason behind these groups should be more about a communication aid about the class, and socials are just an add on, the info on them should be for all parents and therefore if there was a notification on there it would be for both the mum and the dad, regardless of the fact which of the 2 parents might be on the actual WhatsApp group

Am I the only one here who's annoyed the go-karting is reserved for the men? Give me that (and wine) on women's only night too!

If you want Mums only, stick to that, as no doubt if you open up to Dad’s the conversation changes. If Dad’s want to get a social night out then it’s up to them to sort rather than expecting to be included.

I think men get excluded in a lot of things. My DH took our 4 year old DS to his stay and play afternoon at his new school as the school said no siblings and we have a baby who was EBF at the time. He was the only man there and was not made to feel welcome at all. He said that it felt really awkward and that he was being judged for being there. Maybe this is how these mums feel about the dads in the group? And they should be included more?

You complain that the two men never organize anything. Do ALL the women organize things?

You obviously already have a cliquey separate WhatsApp group for the mums that are allowed to lunch but if you fancy a night out you extend it to other mums too. Why not just keep it to your little subgroup anyway?

@CalishataFolkart that’s not true. I gave plenty of suggestions; working parents who don’t do the school run. Step parents looking to be more involved. Parents of their kids friends. The PTA. The school council.

How strange you missed them all.

How about saying I thought the men were organising go karting as they said drinks nights were boring.

I mean why do they come?!

I think it's really rude and just don't understand it. I work ft, my DH is a SAHD and even though all the mum's know this, they'll message me to arrange a play date (I might be away, abroad, etc and they'll have seen him at the school gate), never invite him to coffee mornings, drinks etc. It wouldn't happen with any other group. If you were part of a sports club, work group etc. you wouldn't use the group to invite the women of the group only. If you want to select people to have a night out with, set up a different group, it's not hard. To not do so is really rude and sexist.

Personally think it's cheeky to arrange nights out on a class WhatsApp if you know you don't want the dads around. I agree with another poster, set a WhatsApp group up with the women you want to go out with so you can organise it there. It comes across as really rude to arrange nights out if you know it will exclude people.

I now feel a bit bad as in pre GDPR days when we were given a full list of parents emails, I organised a couple of Mums nights outs when DS was in nursery and lower primary and indeed now have some great friends from that group.

I'd never thought of it as being exclusionary- these weren't official events - most of the DMs came, I guess the ones who didn't like the idea or didn't feel the need to socialise with the class DMs didn't come along.

Having couples or a mixed group definitely adds a different feel to an event and I'd be less keen to arrange an event for all DPs - not exactly sure why, maybe just because it would double the numbers.

I've now been added to a select group of about eight of us who go out for the occasional meal and I also have my scout mums group with 5 of us - sometimes we meet up with DHs, sometimes we don't.

I think it's odd to ask to invite your DH to what is labelled a Mums only event, just don't go if it's not your thing. I quite enjoy socialising without DH sometimes so I don't have to hear the same stories again.

This! If you don't wanna invite the dads don't put it on a group chat that the dads are in, simple

I'm still staggered by the turn this thread took.

I'd never have imagined that a girls'/ladies' night out would engender such revulsion!

It's not sexist to sometimes want to just hang out with your female friends. It's NORMAL. Sometimes you want to talk about stuff that your husband isn't going to want to hear, or will be bored witless by.
Equally, sometimes it's great to catch up with other couples/parents of both sexes, and still have a great time, but talk about different things!

It's a parent group. The comment was [paraphrased] "anyone interested in a ladies' night?" - those interested could say yes, those not could say no. Those who "don't understand" why ladies might like a night to themselves can say No! The men are not included. So what? They don't have to be included in every last thing. Would you invite them to an Anne Summers party if you were having one (if that's even still a thing). I mean, I wouldn't want to go to an Anne Summers party, and haven't, but I gather they're generally ladies only!
How are people supposed to alert the parental group to events that might (or might not) be applicable to them, if they don't post them in the group chat, which is the quickest and easiest "catch all" option?

Personally I abhor Men only nights and Women only nights. Each is a polarised concept that unfairly excludes, which is undeniably sexist. You can call it a "Ladies only night", but if they want to come, they should be made to feel welcome.

I know a young woman who guzzles beer, loves football, burps and men just see her as 'one of the lads'. If she was told she couldn't go to an event with her friends due to being biologically female, she would feel hurt and disappointed - particularly as she does not like women's group company. Similarly, I know a guy who works in an all female office, where they often have "Girls' night out". When he comes in to work on a Monday morning, the other staff are buzzing about the weekend - which he was excluded from. Equally, this just makes him feel left out all the time.

So, in the modern world, we need to mutually balance inequality of the sexes by embracing inclusion, not least in the social context.

I don't understand what "changing the dynamic" means because essentially any change of members of a party will change the dynamic regardless of gender. Let 'em come. If they are bored they will leave.

Omg you sound like the posh bird on motherland ! If it’s a what app group everyone should be invited

@SoupDragon

There is only two dads, that come. One is very quiet and the other one likes to take centre stage.

It really does change the dynamics.

Would you exclude a loud Me Me Me mother too?

This.

Plus its a class whats app group, it will attract attention from Mums and Dads. Including them all in the whats app group and then segregating on a night out.
How are we all supposed to embrace inclusion and diversity if we dont want the men round as they change the dynamic?
May be either accept the different dynamics of the group or segregate completely, as you probably gather I think your being unreasonable and rude to the group as a whole.

@Thingsthatgo

YABU. I’d be annoyed if the dads organised a go karting day or a evening in the pub and said ‘men only’.

That happens all the time in our village. Dads only drinks, curry nights, breakfast clubs for dads and kids only etc.

You are not being unreasonable to want a female only night out. You ARE being totally unreasonable to arrange the night out on the parents group where there are dad's also but tell them they aren't welcome. What the hell? That's so weird! I have 5 children from 21 down to 5 so have spent many years In these circles I have never been in one like this before. Sounds bizarre and even though my husband wouldn't want to come I would think it so odd for him to be in a group like this! Make up a group that is called mums only of daisy's and daffodils or year 2 or whatever if this is what you want to do 🤦‍♀️

Wow I’m surprised majority here think this is not unreasonable.

As for all those suggesting setting up a new WA, please exclude non white people as well so as to not upset your dynamic.

Pathetic

@wherestheweightlosspill

I think it's really rude and just don't understand it. I work ft, my DH is a SAHD and even though all the mum's know this, they'll message me to arrange a play date (I might be away, abroad, etc and they'll have seen him at the school gate), never invite him to coffee mornings, drinks etc. It wouldn't happen with any other group. If you were part of a sports club, work group etc. you wouldn't use the group to invite the women of the group only. If you want to select people to have a night out with, set up a different group, it's not hard. To not do so is really rude and sexist.

What happens when he invites them and arranges a group event?

Jesus pissing Christ on a rusty bike! Are some of you for real? Get a grip. I honestly think that some of you sit poised to jump on any post on here and try to cause a row over nothing whatsoever. OP has done nothing wrong, except for maybe expecting a rational response. Those questioning why she dare even post on here...give your heads a wobble

Honestly this whole thread is why I have as little as possible to do with schools Facebook and WhatsApp groups.

It’s embarrassing that groups of adults can seem to a manage basic social interaction without bitchiness, exclusion, inserting yourself where you’re clearly not welcome etc.

Op why don’t you set up a separate group with the people you do want to have lunches\ dinners out with and save the main group for whole class type communication.

Why not say the event you are organising is for all parents, and then just invite your own friends for a separate smaller event? This seems ilke the sort of thing that keeps men from getting fully involved in parenting.

The issue is that if dads come too then it becomes a couples event rather than a school parents event. Which can actually make it a bit crap for single parents in a way that it wouldn't be if it's mums only. If there was a single parent dad then it does seem s shame to miss him out, but making the whole thing a couples event is a bit of a shame.

This upsets me, my DH is the main carer, doing school drop offs and pick ups and DH is always left out. The women added me on WA eventhough I've never even met any of them.