'Are dads invited too?'

[SyIviescup]

So the class watsap is starting to wake up. The majority are women but there a few dads floating about in it. That don't really contribute to the group at all.

There are a few of us who are friendly - not besties but enjoy going for lunch before pick up (if we can) or evening drinks/ meal out (term time as we all seem to disappear during the long summer holidays)

If we organise a play date outing such as at a play area/park ect its an open invite everyone is invited mums & dads, siblings- anyone.

But if a few of us fancy having a 'mums' night out, we have to extend it to the rest of the mums on the group, so they don't feel left out then the same two women ask if 'the dads can come too?'

Which changes the dynamics of the group. I've nothing against either blokes, they are nice, I chat to them at school but its just not the same. The last time they came, we/I was told that more male friendly/fun stuff should be organised like a night out go carting. I did say to him that he was welcome to organise that but it never came to fruition.

Im not the class rep, its not down to me to organise events that men would like, I don't know why they organise fuck all then expect to come out and sit with 10 women and then moan that they could be doing something more 'fun'.

Message this morning -

Person A - Hi every one hope you all had a great summer, a few of us are thinking about have a mums meal and drinks night out for a catch up on the xxxx, if you fancy it let me know so I can book table.

Person B - I'd love too, can dads come too.

Maybe...y'know...actually go and read some of the replies

Please do this @Winemewhynot, nobody's talking about husbands - just the exclusion of 2 people out of 22 in an established group.

@Journeyofthedragons

Maybe...y'know...actually go and read some of the replies

Please do this @Winemewhynot, nobody's talking about husbands - just the exclusion of 2 people out of 22 in an established group.

I’ve read and contributed on the thread since the beginning thanks, maybe you need to read the thread as you’ve clearly misunderstood.

I can't believe how many people are offended...

It's not that deep. In both classes my kids are in there are smaller what's app groups set up all the time for different nights out etc. Not all the mums get on, plus trying to book tables for 30 people is impossible, not to mention the fact that people always try and add on more last minute/change venue/ moan which is really frustrating.

Whoever that dad was that moaned about it being boring last night should have been told to shove the cocktail menu where the sun don't shine IMO.

You can't please everyone.

I think a MASSIVE point that has been missed by loads of posters is that it seems that women were asking if their husbands could come, rather than single dads? @SyIviescup is that right? If so it very much changes the feel of the whole evening as some are couples, others aren't and you need ALOT more organisation for 60 people if 30 couples came!

Nothing wrong in saying it's a ladies night, if a single dad wants to come, let him, but I don't know many single dads that would want to go out with a group of mums. People really need to stop being so offended! Mums or dads nights go on the whole time, the conversations are completely different than when it's couples. It's as simple as that. We really don't need to get into discussions about gender discrimination do we???

Go kart dad can go sit on his own and make bruuum noises in the corner

Nothing wrong in saying it's a ladies night, if a single dad wants to come, let him, but I don't know many single dads that would want to go out with a group of mums
But they might want to if the husbands do go out. Surely when a large group of people go out, people just mix with those they feel they want to socialise with and yes, sadly, in this country, it often ends up with men together on one side and women on the other.

My experience is that 'girls exclusive nights out' are forums to just moan about male partners. I've been on a couple and that's what it came down to. Male bashing. Not my thing at all but some seem to love it, especially after a few drinks.

I am a single mom. Everyone around me when my oldest was little was married. I joined a group called "mother's and more" because I wanted time with other moms and kids, instead of constant "odd man out" feeling. Well the world came crashing down when a woman asked of "husband's could come too" to an event and I said "I'd actually prefer not as I joined this group to have fun times with just mom's and kids". Apparently that's just rude. It upset her so much that they pretty much outed me from the group. I don't join groups anymore. It kinda messed everything up for me in regards to making mom friends and such.

It seems pretty disingenuous to me to claim the “ladies’ night” invitation has to be in the group to avoid upsetting anyone, but then complain when people want to invite other, male members of the group. How many members are there of a class WhatsApp group? 20? 30? Why not just message six or seven people and keep it as a night out for a group of good friends who happen to know one another via their children’s school? None of the others even need to know it happened if there aren’t pictures all over Facebook.

The OP has been very vocal about the men not being kids - well, the women aren’t either. If grown women can’t accept that, out of a group of 20-30 women, smaller friendship groups will form, then frankly they’re not mature enough to have kids.

For that reason, I can’t help thinking the invitation is posted on the main group to make a point. Otherwise, why does the OP keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result?

Look if you want a mums group then don’t include dads. It’s simple right. Just create a new group, add the women only, and say it’s a mums only group.

What are people not getting?
This isn't a mums group where mums are asking if their partners can come along ffs!!!
It is a parents group that has 2 men on it (presumably a lot of the dad's didn't choose to join the group) and an event is being organised on it for 'mums only' actively excluding two people in the group.
No wonder men don't want to join these groups! It's such a shame, we would all benefit (women men and kids) from dad's being more involved in the daily admin and organisation of daily school life!

What are you sniffing? Seriously, you literally have no skin in the game as you don't have kids so won't even be on a class watsap. Yet your accusing me off being misogynistic because women were invited out on a mums night out.

“No skin in the game” 😂😂😂

@Suspicioussam

What are people not getting? This isn't a mums group where mums are asking if their partners can come along ffs!!! It is a parents group that has 2 men on it (presumably a lot of the dad's didn't choose to join the group) and an event is being organised on it for 'mums only' actively excluding two people in the group. No wonder men don't want to join these groups! It's such a shame, we would all benefit (women men and kids) from dad's being more involved in the daily admin and organisation of daily school life!

Two men that weren't interested enough to ask if they could attend themselves......

@Winemewhynot you made a massive jump there!

@ChaneySays spot on.

And your point? Most people when they have been clearly excluded wouldn't say 'can I come?' someone else obviously piped up as they knew it was wrong, good on her!

Well the world came crashing down when a woman asked of "husband's could come too" to an event and I said "I'd actually prefer not as I joined this group to have fun times with just mom's and kids
You made a fuss for one event. I'm sorry but I'm not surprised you go booted out. I too was the only single mum in a group of married mums. We mainly met on our own because indeed, they were happy to meet without their partners at time, but occasionally, there were events where their partners joined and that was absolutely fine. It was nice to get to know them too. And yes, the dynamic was different then, but it was ok too and enjoyable in other ways.

Two men that weren't interested enough to ask if they could attend themselves......
Why should they ask when the message is clear they are not wanted. It wasn't an error, OP said she didn't want them there.

So should the asked to be told 'well yes, I suppose you can come' which means 'I'd rather you didn't but can't say so, but hopefully you'll get the message you should have gone first time', or clear 'no you can't, isn't girlie clear enough'. Neither is pleasant to hear, so why would they put themselves in a situation to be feel insulted?

Why do you object so much to a girls night out? Do you think women need to be accompanied by men at all times?
Don’t be ridiculous. The problem here is that 22 people are in the group and 2 of those people are being excluded from an event. The reason for excluding them is irrelevant - it’s rude. And also sex discrimination is illegal and I’m shocked that people are trying to justify it.

@Suspicioussam - OP already explained that the woman who 'piped up' did so because she cannot bear to attend any event without her husband in tow. Nothing to do with sexism or exclusion.

@Blueleah

Why do you object so much to a girls night out? Do you think women need to be accompanied by men at all times? Don’t be ridiculous. The problem here is that 22 people are in the group and 2 of those people are being excluded from an event. The reason for excluding them is irrelevant - it’s rude. And also sex discrimination is illegal and I’m shocked that people are trying to justify it.

I don't think it's illegal to discriminate about who you have an informal drink with.

And also sex discrimination is illegal

It’s not sex discrimination to not want to have men tagging on to a girls night out..

@Load3 it's not clear what her motivation was for saying it.
'cant bear to attend any event without her husband in tow' is a bit of a leap!

[quote Load3]@Suspicioussam - OP already explained that the woman who 'piped up' did so because she cannot bear to attend any event without her husband in tow. Nothing to do with sexism or exclusion.[/quote]
Actually, that’s not what the OP said at all. I think you’re referring to this comment:

If these women need to bring their husbands out with them on every event or night out they should start getting off their arses and sorting something. But they don't, they would rather just turn up with hubby in tow after its all been arrange for them.

There’s no evidence this woman can’t (or won’t) go anywhere without her husband. Indeed, if you read the OP’s posts, she’s apparently still coming.

Ffs. Night in for me.

I just find it weird that some events are 'male friendly', some are 'for ladies', 'the dynamic changes when men are there' and 'if I'm leaving my husband at home, I don't want to talk to yours'...

When I go out with male friends or female friends, especially friendships based around kids, we generally talk about the same things. Work, covid, kids etc, while we have a drink and some food. I don't personally really see how inviting 3 men or not inviting 3 men would change any of that.

Your nights out seem a lot more 'gendered' than what I'm personally used to.

Personally I think jf it’s on the whole class WhatsApp I’d just go with ‘all welcome’ and leave it at that. You can always have a separate group or get together with your actual group of friends

Agree, it’s just kind of unfriendly. If you’re good friends with the women (but not the men) that’s fine but then set up another group for school friends. I wouldn’t exclude people on the Class WhatsApp Group.
The problem isn’t having a mums night out, the problem is the group you’re doing it in. It feels exclusionary and unkind to leave out a couple of people.

But YABVU to claim that some events are “male friendly”. What does that even mean? All public places are unisex, the event isn’t planned at a place where men are banned, I’m not sure what you think makes an event “male friendly”?

I would recommend you ask the men who complained that the event which the women organised wasn't male friendly enough.

It is not the job of women to manage men's social lives.

All "not fair whine whine" and telling women that we can't expect men to be involved in childcare unless they are included in every tiny social event, that we should organise everything with men in mind and the false equivalence arguments is just pure bullshit and whataboutery at the level I've come to expect from men's rights apologists.

It is not discriminating against men to have a women's social or discussion group. Ditto black or minority groups in white society. Ditto disability groups in able bodied society.

To pretend otherwise is either dishonest or stupid.

Why do you object so much to a girls night out? Do you think women need to be accompanied by men at all times?
Don’t be ridiculous. The problem here is that 22 people are in the group and 2 of those people are being excluded from an event. The reason for excluding them is irrelevant - it’s rude*

This is correct! (But not the bit about it being illegal!).