'Are dads invited too?'

[SyIviescup]

So the class watsap is starting to wake up. The majority are women but there a few dads floating about in it. That don't really contribute to the group at all.

There are a few of us who are friendly - not besties but enjoy going for lunch before pick up (if we can) or evening drinks/ meal out (term time as we all seem to disappear during the long summer holidays)

If we organise a play date outing such as at a play area/park ect its an open invite everyone is invited mums & dads, siblings- anyone.

But if a few of us fancy having a 'mums' night out, we have to extend it to the rest of the mums on the group, so they don't feel left out then the same two women ask if 'the dads can come too?'

Which changes the dynamics of the group. I've nothing against either blokes, they are nice, I chat to them at school but its just not the same. The last time they came, we/I was told that more male friendly/fun stuff should be organised like a night out go carting. I did say to him that he was welcome to organise that but it never came to fruition.

Im not the class rep, its not down to me to organise events that men would like, I don't know why they organise fuck all then expect to come out and sit with 10 women and then moan that they could be doing something more 'fun'.

Message this morning -

Person A - Hi every one hope you all had a great summer, a few of us are thinking about have a mums meal and drinks night out for a catch up on the xxxx, if you fancy it let me know so I can book table.

Person B - I'd love too, can dads come too.

I'd reply with

"I thought they were going to organise a boys night out as they didn't seem to enjoy the last one"

If they come I would spend the evening discussing my pelvic floor and HRT.

[quote Suspicioussam]@winemewhynot
Of course people can socialise with who they like but if you have a parents watsap group and you send an invite out to the group then it should include everyone. That's just basic manners. I'm pretty sure my 5 year old would understand that. In fact I recently had to discuss this with him when his friend wasn't letting his female friend play because she's a 'girl'. I explained that 'wasn't kind' and to make sure she is allowed to play next time so she doesn't feel left out.
Surely as adults we should have largely moved past that.[/quote]
Are the men really that precious that they will be offended by the women organising a girls night out on the group chat?

I wouldn’t care if the men put on about a dads trip to the pub

SyIviescup Wed 01-Sep-21 11:37:17

lottiegarbanzo

I agree with Babyleaf who sounds sensible and reasonable.

You're not asking a question, you're making a statement.

The only reason to ask the question 'am I being unreasonable?' is self-doubt. You don't appear too have any, so why are you here?

Why are you here? And why are are you being nasty?

I started the post yesterday - which still has the majority that IANBU. Im replying to posters who are either @ me or posting towards me.

I can actually stay on the thread as long as I like, you don't get to set limits for other posters because you don't agree with the outcome.

What are you talking about? I'm not 'being nasty', I'm asking you a question. I am really, truly puzzled about why you have posted here, as are many other posters, including the one I referenced. So I've asked you a question. Is there an answer?

The only reason to ask a question is because you're genuinely interested in hearing the answer and are aware that it might not be what you'd expected.

If you are confident you know the answer already and determined to act on you prior beliefs, there is no point asking the question. If you have no self-doubt, there is no purpose in asking people whether you are being unreasonable.

From what I've read on the thread, you've exhibited little to no self-doubt. That's not a pejorative comment, it's an observation. Therefore I am puzzled as to why you posted. What you hoped to gain from it, given that different perspectives, experiences and insights - the things people usually come here for - don't appear to have been well received.

What did you hope to gain from asking people whether, perhaps, despite all your prior confidence, you were in some way being unreasonable?

@Carryonmarion
I'm a woman and I'd rather talk about go karting than 'gossip'. Which group would I attend?

I'm with you, OP and I think the organiser should just repeat that it's a ladies night this time. Let the 2 blokes (or their wives!) sort something if they want to.

Why do the men even WANT to in those circs? My DH would avoid that gathering like the plague and enjoy having the remote for the night!

I’m confused. If it’s a class WhatsApp then surely everyone should be invited? If not then you should have a separate group for your friends to organise get togethers. You can’t use a class WhatsApp for to organise get togethers with those who you get on with best, regardless of gender.

[quote Suspicioussam]@Carryonmarion
I'm a woman and I'd rather talk about go karting than 'gossip'. Which group would I attend?[/quote]
It depends whether you want to talk about go-karting with women or men or both. Your invitation, your parameters.
If someone else makes the invitation then they set the parameters.

[quote Suspicioussam]@SyIviescup why is it different? We teach our kids to be polite, kind and inclusive because we think that is the right thing to do.
The watsap group is for parents not mums and excluding people so openly for them to see is rude.[/quote]
Because as adults we should have the emotional intelligence to understand that sometimes a group of women or a group of men might just want to socialise by themselves and not feel excluded.

Being over 'inclusive' may end up excluding women who just want a night out away from their DH and kids.

Starting a break away group privately that invites every woman apart from the men ( there is actually only three on the group that rarely engage) only would have pushed the same response - 'Can the dads come?''

Starting a break away group and only inviting a few select people causes aggro and feelings of purposely being left out

It was asked on the main group so there was no secrecy, a mums night out was being planned and did any one want to come. Lots do.No one has complained.

However it is a good idea to move the night out away from the group now as not to spam the page up with arrangements. All those coming will be added to it.

As ive stated many times it wasn't actually me that put the invite on so I will leave the change over to the person that issued the actual invite.

I think I object to two things on this thread:

1. the stereotyping of ‘men’ and ‘women’ and what they might want from a night out and what topics they want to talk about. I don’t think anyone wants to hear about someone’s pelvic floor!
2. Men have not traditionally been part of the childcare / school run but are getting more involved and that’s a good thing for them, the kids and women. It should be encouraged. No parents WhatsApp group should be used to discourage any participation from any parent.

@saraclara

I can’t believe you just compared this to the horrifically sexist ways women have been treated through the years with things like being considered property, men given the right to rape their wives etc. It’s incredibly offensive.

Sorry, what?
I compared this to the organisations (But professional and leisure based) that women were not allowed to be part of over history. The men only organisations. Or hose that were 'liberated' enough to allow women in, but not to hold any position within them, or for them to basically be there to make the tea'

Where on earth did you get that I was comparing this WhatsApp group to marital rape, @Naunet?

You compared men being excluded to the sexism women have faced, it’s outrageously offensive and minimising of our history.

Oh god. You are one of those mums.

Avoid avoid avoid.

@Journeyofthedragons

Yet here you are, on MUMSnet

What "The Uk's most popular website for parents"?

Yeah you’re right, it’s not aimed at women at all is it?! Give over.

I have read the thread and it seems to me that ok, you shouldn't issue a general invitation on a whatsapp group that doesn't include everyone on the group.

However, it's also not the job of women to babysit men into getting more involved with their children.

I'm nonchalant on this issue, so on the fence about the AIBU. Couldn't really care less whether males and females socialise together, and probably wouldn't notice either way.

But some of the other stuff on this thread is barmy. The stag/hen thing all seems a bit 80s, it's unbelievable that some women apparently refuse to leave the house without their husbands, the stuff about 'gender discrimination' in relation to a night in the pub (i.e. not the workplace in which women are almost 100% guaranteed to come off worse), the suggestion that women should be responsible for setting up social groups for men, then comparing leaving blokes off the guest list to racism.

WT ever-loving F?

If so-called 'school gate' politics translate offline to their equivalent here, then I'm very grateful I've never got involved with them. Kinell.

OP the obvious thing to do is to raise your issue within the WhatsApp group

Moaning on mn won't help

It’s rude to inform a whole group of your plans but only invite some of them. They teach this at primary school - if you bring invitations, sweets, or whatever to class they have to be for everyone, otherwise keep it outside of school. Why is it only a mums night out? Surely it should be a PARENTS night out? If the men don’t like it and don’t want to come that’s up to them, but it’s not nice for you to exclude them because they have penises. The person saying “can dads come too” is politely pointing out how rude you’re being by saying Mums instead of Parents.

Yeah you’re right, it’s not aimed at women at all is it?! Give over.

Not according to MNHQ

That rather than expecting males to arrange more 'male' friendly events for themselves - women should climb over themselves to organise it for them
I agree that you should organise what you personally want, and if other people want different events they can organise them themselves. But YABVU to claim that some events are “male friendly”. What does that even mean? All public places are unisex, the event isn’t planned at a place where men are banned, I’m not sure what you think makes an event “male friendly”?

[quote Suspicioussam]@Carryonmarion
I'm a woman and I'd rather talk about go karting than 'gossip'. Which group would I attend?[/quote]
You should stay in your lane apparently.

@Thingsthatgo

YABU. I’d be annoyed if the dads organised a go karting day or a evening in the pub and said ‘men only’.

That was my first thought!

Why can't it state "parents night out to x" then the men won't feel like they are gatecrashing something designed for females and if they suggest something else you can say why don't they organise a parents night out to X.

I'm female and single mum but I'd be out off by "mums night out". Probably the same way the blokes feel excluded but usually from where I am that means married mums getting shit faced whilst the dads baby's sit and get a lie in the following day.

@Blueleah

It’s rude to inform a whole group of your plans but only invite some of them. They teach this at primary school - if you bring invitations, sweets, or whatever to class they have to be for everyone, otherwise keep it outside of school. Why is it only a mums night out? Surely it should be a PARENTS night out? If the men don’t like it and don’t want to come that’s up to them, but it’s not nice for you to exclude them because they have penises. The person saying “can dads come too” is politely pointing out how rude you’re being by saying Mums instead of Parents.

Yet the person who 'pointed' that out is coming by herself. How do you know she wasn't doing a fist pump min the air that her dh wasn't invited, surely she would decline the invitation if she was making a point?

So, would it have been acceptable to request that no mums over 35yo attend on the basis that people sometimes want to just socialise with their own demographic or people they can relate to better?

This thread is crazy

I agree with you @SyIviescup. There was a large group set up for the parents of children stating the new secondary school a couple of Dads joined the group and literally ruined the whole chat many mums left and set up another group.

Yet the person who 'pointed' that out is coming by herself. How do you know she wasn't doing a fist pump min the air that her dh wasn't invited, surely she would decline the invitation if she was making a point?

Well surely they can both be invited and as grown married adults discuss between themselves who will go, if someone will stay at home with kids or whatever? It's not up to the other WhatsApp group users to make these decisions on behalf of the other parents

Being over 'inclusive' may end up excluding women who just want a night out away from their DH and kids

Sorry what? so you need to exclude people to ensure that those that want exclusions dont feel excluded! riiiight.

The right thing to do is invite everyone who is on the group. Job done. Lesson one in social etiquette key stage 1 complete.