'Are dads invited too?'

[SyIviescup]

So the class watsap is starting to wake up. The majority are women but there a few dads floating about in it. That don't really contribute to the group at all.

There are a few of us who are friendly - not besties but enjoy going for lunch before pick up (if we can) or evening drinks/ meal out (term time as we all seem to disappear during the long summer holidays)

If we organise a play date outing such as at a play area/park ect its an open invite everyone is invited mums & dads, siblings- anyone.

But if a few of us fancy having a 'mums' night out, we have to extend it to the rest of the mums on the group, so they don't feel left out then the same two women ask if 'the dads can come too?'

Which changes the dynamics of the group. I've nothing against either blokes, they are nice, I chat to them at school but its just not the same. The last time they came, we/I was told that more male friendly/fun stuff should be organised like a night out go carting. I did say to him that he was welcome to organise that but it never came to fruition.

Im not the class rep, its not down to me to organise events that men would like, I don't know why they organise fuck all then expect to come out and sit with 10 women and then moan that they could be doing something more 'fun'.

Message this morning -

Person A - Hi every one hope you all had a great summer, a few of us are thinking about have a mums meal and drinks night out for a catch up on the xxxx, if you fancy it let me know so I can book table.

Person B - I'd love too, can dads come too.

Then if dads want to come, they can, and not feel like some sort of weird intruder, like I imagine they do in your playground at pick up time.

Why are so many people using the phrase 'centering men'? This isn't about centering man, it's about inclusiveness. Every parent in a class WhatsApp group should be equal.

@Tilly18101 I think a lot of posters are determined to take this situation in a direction it was never going in.

No one is a widow
No one is Trans
No racism was involved
No one has a new female partner who would like to come
No children were left behind
No one was told to leave the group

And no one seems to be really arsed that a 'mums' night out was organised as nothing else has been said about it.

I find it fascinating that one social event out that's just for women has caused so much offence and angst for other women. That rather than expecting males to arrange more 'male' friendly events for themselves - women should climb over themselves to organise it for them. That a womens night out is akin to leaving one child out of a school class party or a child wandering round the play ground by themselves. Do women really put men in that category - that they must be protected and looked after by women?

I’ll ask again:

Why have you posted in AIBU if you’re already certain you’re behaving reasonably?

Bun fight?

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

But why not have a parents night out? Is that so hard to do? Or do you live in some sort of stepford wives dystopia which prevents this?

I agree completely.

[quote SyIviescup]@Tilly18101 I think a lot of posters are determined to take this situation in a direction it was never going in.

No one is a widow
No one is Trans
No racism was involved
No one has a new female partner who would like to come
No children were left behind
No one was told to leave the group

And no one seems to be really arsed that a 'mums' night out was organised as nothing else has been said about it.

I find it fascinating that one social event out that's just for women has caused so much offence and angst for other women. That rather than expecting males to arrange more 'male' friendly events for themselves - women should climb over themselves to organise it for them. That a womens night out is akin to leaving one child out of a school class party or a child wandering round the play ground by themselves. Do women really put men in that category - that they must be protected and looked after by women?[/quote]
OP I think you’ve done very well to not go insane reading some of the drivel posted in response.

People have misinterpreted your entire post/question! Assuming you are leaving out single fathers when you have clearly explained that a mum was asking if dad can come, therefore changing the dynamic to a partner event which isn’t what you are organising or suggesting! This isn’t a discussion about inclusion of the UK’s minorities of single dads, trans, kids - it’s a simple question of Girls night v bringing partners along and the dynamic, why is that so hard to grasp?

If my girlfriends invited me out for a wine, I wouldn’t expect to bring my hubs or even ask - id be skipping out the door ready for a good catch up and alone time. He’d likely also be perplexed if I dragged him along to sit with a bunch of women when he could be at home doing his own thing and/or seeing his own mates/dad friends. If it was a specific partners night out, I.e book your babysitters let’s all go out, then of course ‘dads can come’.

For my two cents, if you have a lovey group of mums who like to go for the odd wine set up your own WhatsApp with them it sounds much letter stressful, if people get offended you left them out, you can explain you didn’t think they’d be interested as they bring their husbands every time.

You are not leaving anyone out.
You are entitled to go out for a drink with who you want and when you want.
You can organise what you want.
You are not the mum organiser of events that must include everyone and their postman in order to please all of MN.

People have gone wild. The world has simply gone mad.

I haven't RTFT, but what's the expected change in dynamic if two dads joined a group of twenty mums in the pub?

@BabyLeaf

I’ll ask again:

Why have you posted in AIBU if you’re already certain you’re behaving reasonably?

Bun fight?

Why should a mums night out cause a bun fight? Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds.

The expected change in dynamics if 2 dads join us that they would dominate the conversation and be miffed it wasn’t go karting apparently. Who are these dads? I’ve never met any like this.

The solution is clearly for the men to stick to what they're good at and leave the parenting to the women, right?

I agree with Babyleaf who sounds sensible and reasonable.

You're not asking a question, you're making a statement.

The only reason to ask the question 'am I being unreasonable?' is self-doubt. You don't appear too have any, so why are you here?

@ChaneySays

The solution is clearly for the men to stick to what they're good at and leave the parenting to the women, right?

What are you sniffing? Seriously, you literally have no skin in the game as you don't have kids so won't even be on a class watsap. Yet your accusing me off being misogynistic because women were invited out on a mums night out.

I don't know what agenda you've got but you won't get a fight out of me. have a nice day.

Ah this is awkward and I know how you feel.
I have a group of ex work colleagues who get together socially, all women. One got a new partner and started bringing him to every meet up (drink / restaurant). It changed things, discussion topics etc. And we tried doing 'girls night out' in the invite message. He still came along. Even when we said could she just come by herself he would end up driving her so would be there too (ok sounds like abuse in hindsight).
In the end it was her who stopped being invited because we didn't want him to come. Unfortunately.
But sometimes you just want to hang out with women and that is fine!!

I'd reply 'If they want to. Or they could arrange a separate event' to this one. And next time arrange verbally / separately with just the mums who get on. This type of thing is why exclusion happens.

It's not about someone 'bringing a partner' is it? It's a parents watsap group so parents (mums and dads) are both on it. It's not like its a mums group and someone has requested to bring their partner

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

But why not have a parents night out? Is that so hard to do? Or do you live in some sort of stepford wives dystopia which prevents this?

Because sometimes females like to socialise with other females without men around, it is allowed now you know.

And I’m sure if I’m leaving my husband at home I don’t want to spend my night talking to yours

I really don’t get why this is so difficult for you to understand

@lottiegarbanzo

I agree with Babyleaf who sounds sensible and reasonable.

You're not asking a question, you're making a statement.

The only reason to ask the question 'am I being unreasonable?' is self-doubt. You don't appear too have any, so why are you here?

Why are you here? And why are are you being nasty?

I started the post yesterday - which still has the majority that IANBU. Im replying to posters who are either @ me or posting towards me.

I can actually stay on the thread as long as I like, you don't get to set limits for other posters because you don't agree with the outcome.

Why wouldn’t you want to talk to my husband abd you would me? You’ve never met him. He’s a person just like you and me. Writing him off without ever meeting him, that’s just nuts!

Because sometimes females like to socialise with other females without men around, it is allowed now you know

And I’m sure if I’m leaving my husband at home I don’t want to spend my night talking to yours

I really don’t get why this is so difficult for you to understand

This about sums it up for me thanks @Winemewhynot.

I'm leaving the thread now as I've a feeling its about to turn nasty!

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

Why wouldn’t you want to talk to my husband abd you would me? You’ve never met him. He’s a person just like you and me. Writing him off without ever meeting him, that’s just nuts!

I’d gladly talk to him at the school gate or on a couples night out but not on a girls night out.

@winemewhynot
Of course people can socialise with who they like but if you have a parents watsap group and you send an invite out to the group then it should include everyone. That's just basic manners. I'm pretty sure my 5 year old would understand that. In fact I recently had to discuss this with him when his friend wasn't letting his female friend play because she's a 'girl'. I explained that 'wasn't kind' and to make sure she is allowed to play next time so she doesn't feel left out.
Surely as adults we should have largely moved past that.

*And I’m sure if I’m leaving my husband at home I don’t want to spend my night talking to yours

I really don’t get why this is so difficult for you to understand*

Because the original post is about all the parents in a whatsapp group which is mixed sex, they're was no talk of bringing partners (husbands or wives) to the event.

But not wanting men on a night out should have no bearing on a parent group. The parent group is for parents regardless of sex

[quote Suspicioussam]@winemewhynot
Of course people can socialise with who they like but if you have a parents watsap group and you send an invite out to the group then it should include everyone. That's just basic manners. I'm pretty sure my 5 year old would understand that. In fact I recently had to discuss this with him when his friend wasn't letting his female friend play because she's a 'girl'. I explained that 'wasn't kind' and to make sure she is allowed to play next time so she doesn't feel left out.
Surely as adults we should have largely moved past that.[/quote]
Again people are comparing this children.

These are grown men who should be able to neck their wives going out with out them.

I guess the person who send the invite "owns" the event so its up to them to decide who comes but you could reply: "I was under the impression that the Dads that came last time found it all a bit boring and wanted to organise something different - carting or whatever? Can [organiser] confirm that its just going to be drinks and gossip again?"
Hopefully a response like this is a polite way of making it clear that any men who do turn up know what they are getting themselves into and any moaning and "poor me" attention seeking wont be pandered to.

@SyIviescup why is it different? We teach our kids to be polite, kind and inclusive because we think that is the right thing to do.
The watsap group is for parents not mums and excluding people so openly for them to see is rude.