'Are dads invited too?'

[SyIviescup]

So the class watsap is starting to wake up. The majority are women but there a few dads floating about in it. That don't really contribute to the group at all.

There are a few of us who are friendly - not besties but enjoy going for lunch before pick up (if we can) or evening drinks/ meal out (term time as we all seem to disappear during the long summer holidays)

If we organise a play date outing such as at a play area/park ect its an open invite everyone is invited mums & dads, siblings- anyone.

But if a few of us fancy having a 'mums' night out, we have to extend it to the rest of the mums on the group, so they don't feel left out then the same two women ask if 'the dads can come too?'

Which changes the dynamics of the group. I've nothing against either blokes, they are nice, I chat to them at school but its just not the same. The last time they came, we/I was told that more male friendly/fun stuff should be organised like a night out go carting. I did say to him that he was welcome to organise that but it never came to fruition.

Im not the class rep, its not down to me to organise events that men would like, I don't know why they organise fuck all then expect to come out and sit with 10 women and then moan that they could be doing something more 'fun'.

Message this morning -

Person A - Hi every one hope you all had a great summer, a few of us are thinking about have a mums meal and drinks night out for a catch up on the xxxx, if you fancy it let me know so I can book table.

Person B - I'd love too, can dads come too.

If they self identified as a woman could they come on the night out?

I can’t believe you just compared this to the horrifically sexist ways women have been treated through the years with things like being considered property, men given the right to rape their wives etc. It’s incredibly offensive.

Sorry, what?
I compared this to the organisations (But professional and leisure based) that women were not allowed to be part of over history. The men only organisations. Or hose that were 'liberated' enough to allow women in, but not to hold any position within them, or for them to basically be there to make the tea'

Where on earth did you get that I was comparing this WhatsApp group to marital rape, @Naunet?

But= both

I can’t believe you just compared this to the horrifically sexist ways women have been treated through the years with things like being considered property, men given the right to rape their wives etc. It’s incredibly offensive
There is no comparison to be have. More a case of practicing what one is preaching.

A dad here. I did 8 out of the 10 school runs and my wife did the other 2 on her day off so I knew most of the parents better than her. I didn’t care one bit when there was a mums night out. Good for them.

Some of us even organised a smaller dads night out a few times.

Won't somebody think of the poor men? Perhaps you ladies could organise a fundraiser for them and get them some group therapy.

I can’t believe you just compared this to the horrifically sexist ways women have been treated through the years with things like being considered property, men given the right to rape their wives etc. It’s incredibly offensive.

Oh, the oppressed middle class mums of mumsnet. 🤣 How ever will they navigate this perilous world of WhatsApp groups and afterschool activities!

I think it's less about sex and more about power. Granted, the tiny minority at the top are largely male but the average man doesn't have much more power than the average woman. I mean, look at how American men have to sign up for the draft to get state education etc which women get for free. For those families who can't afford to pay there's presumably little choice but to sign your life into somebody else's hands.

Can you imagine how frightening that could be when you had somebody like Trump at the helm who could quite easily start a war, or seeing all the people (plenty on here) saying 'we' should go back to Afghanistan and sort things out - they don't include themselves in the 'we' but it could quite possibly end up being the unfortunate blokes who signed up for the draft to get state education not really thinking it might end up with them dodging Taliban bullets in a trench in the Middle East.

I've seen you scoff about 'white, middle class mums' and their petty little concerns on here before, @ChaneySays .

I've also noted, (on another thread), that you don't have children.

It's very gracious of you to be so liberal with your opinions, when it's unlikely you have any actual experience of this type of scenario.

Goodness me there's a lot of hysteria on this post. I mean I understand you want a ladies only night and if I were you I would have added the ladies to a separate group to organise (not just so it's not rude, but also not to bombard everyone in the group with lots of irrelevant messages).

@SyIviescup I think having a separate group chat for social events is the way forward. It just muddies the waters if all social events are discussed on what is primarily a communication tool for parents on what is happening in the class/school.

Some parents, for many reasons, have no desire to mix with other parents at the school (you see many threads on here from posters who dread the school run and the school gate) but they still want to know about what is happening in their class. It would be unfair to exclude these parents from a parent group because it has now become more of a social events group (and they would see it as a extension of the school gate). Personalities of parents should not figure in the class WhatsApp group. The parents do want to socialise with other parents, very helpful if you are new to the area, so a separate social group chat will be great for them.

Also I would be looking at the role of the class rep. I wouldn't see that as a social events organiser role, and would be really upset if there were parents badmouthing me behind my back because I had organised fuck all. I would see the role much more as a go between the teacher and the rest of the parents, to stop the teacher being inundated with the same email from numerous parents if a query was raised in respect of homework, school trip etc.

Wow some of these replies

I’m about to be a FTM, and I’m actually looking forward to meeting a group of mums that I can have the odd night out with - withiut my husband to baby in tow!

If someone brought their DH or partner, it would completely change the dynamic. I agree, ask if dads can come to confirm the situation but if it’s a ‘shall we have a night off, and a girls only night’ don’t be offended by the honesty, and/or don’t go if you can’t leave your partner at home for 2 hrs!

Some of you need to get a grip and quickly. This isn’t about diversity and inclusion. I regularly go out with my girls for a drink without their partner and we always confirm the position beforehand, it’s really not a hard concept to grasp.

I've seen you scoff about 'white, middle class mums' and their petty little concerns on here before, @ChaneySays.

Well, there seem to be plenty of examples. 🤷‍♀️ It's a bit telling that the Karen meme causes a great deal more offence on here than racism and other things that genuinely oppressed people experience.

Yet here you are, on MUMSnet

What "The Uk's most popular website for parents"?

I'm off to RacismNet to complain that they don't centre me, a white mum, more.

Bloody cheek of them, centring their own concerns over mine.

I’m about to be a FTM, and I’m actually looking forward to meeting a group of mums that I can have the odd night out with - withiut my husband to baby in tow!

If you're transitioning to a male though it might still affect the group dynamic as FTM people tend to pass better than TW - i.e. people may mistake you for a man.

@MilesJuppIsMyBitch

I'm off to RacismNet to complain that they don't centre me, a white mum, more.

Bloody cheek of them, centring their own concerns over mine.

I'm not sure where you've got the impression that mumsnet is intended to centre white women?

I think FTM means Full Time Mum in this instance.

@ChaneySays

I’m about to be a FTM, and I’m actually looking forward to meeting a group of mums that I can have the odd night out with - withiut my husband to baby in tow!

If you're transitioning to a male though it might still affect the group dynamic as FTM people tend to pass better than TW - i.e. people may mistake you for a man.

😆

I was actually surprised after 27 pages that this thread hasn't descended into whether transwomen parents were invited or not.

Yes, @ChaneySays . That's what I meant.

You are very wise.

if I were you I would have added the ladies to a separate group to organise (not just so it's not rude, but also not to bombard everyone in the group with lots of irrelevant messages)

Absolutely .

I admin a few school parent year groups. I organised (pre covid) Mums nights out. Despite there being a few Dads in the group, due to wanting to be on the group and involved and some due to being separated. Never had any of the Dads ask to come. But if they did. It would be fine. There’s nearly 60 parents in each group. And most time we’ve organised something. Not very often admittedly, there’s about 18-24 that come out.

If one Dad wants to come. Why can’t he?

@ChaneySays

I’m about to be a FTM, and I’m actually looking forward to meeting a group of mums that I can have the odd night out with - withiut my husband to baby in tow!

If you're transitioning to a male though it might still affect the group dynamic as FTM people tend to pass better than TW - i.e. people may mistake you for a man.

Clearly myself or OP are not discussing trans men or women though are we.

You are clearly here with nothing better to do but attempt to pick holes, and be nothing more than a nuisance. If that’s your prerogative in life, fair play, but I feel sorry for your friends and family.

Maybe take a little break from Mumsnet, and get outside for a bit.

@Vickles20

I admin a few school parent year groups. I organised (pre covid) Mums nights out. Despite there being a few Dads in the group, due to wanting to be on the group and involved and some due to being separated. Never had any of the Dads ask to come. But if they did. It would be fine. There’s nearly 60 parents in each group. And most time we’ve organised something. Not very often admittedly, there’s about 18-24 that come out.

If one Dad wants to come. Why can’t he?

Because its a girls night out?

@SyIviescup

Oh good grief! No kids are being left out!

How can you be sure? There have always been a few single fathers at my DCs schools. If you exclude dads, you exclude the single dads and their children by proxy.

But why not have a parents night out? Is that so hard to do? Or do you live in some sort of stepford wives dystopia which prevents this?