'Are dads invited too?'

[SyIviescup]

So the class watsap is starting to wake up. The majority are women but there a few dads floating about in it. That don't really contribute to the group at all.

There are a few of us who are friendly - not besties but enjoy going for lunch before pick up (if we can) or evening drinks/ meal out (term time as we all seem to disappear during the long summer holidays)

If we organise a play date outing such as at a play area/park ect its an open invite everyone is invited mums & dads, siblings- anyone.

But if a few of us fancy having a 'mums' night out, we have to extend it to the rest of the mums on the group, so they don't feel left out then the same two women ask if 'the dads can come too?'

Which changes the dynamics of the group. I've nothing against either blokes, they are nice, I chat to them at school but its just not the same. The last time they came, we/I was told that more male friendly/fun stuff should be organised like a night out go carting. I did say to him that he was welcome to organise that but it never came to fruition.

Im not the class rep, its not down to me to organise events that men would like, I don't know why they organise fuck all then expect to come out and sit with 10 women and then moan that they could be doing something more 'fun'.

Message this morning -

Person A - Hi every one hope you all had a great summer, a few of us are thinking about have a mums meal and drinks night out for a catch up on the xxxx, if you fancy it let me know so I can book table.

Person B - I'd love too, can dads come too.

The easiest thing to do is to get one of the dads, who is good at networking / you know very well to start a separate group for the dads. That’s what happened when dd was young anyway.

In other words, tell them that they don't belong here because of their sex, and they should go and make their own group. So basically what women were told for centuries.
It's called sexism and exclusion.

And given that the WhatsApp group is a class one for various purposes, not just social things, you're excluding them from school knowledge and information that you're sharing too.

That's absolutely appalling.

C8H1
Has nailed it. This arrant nonsense that women can’t organise a night out unless they also organise something for perfectly capable men is just an example of male power in action. It certainly isn’t a concern you see expressed on male dominated groups.

@Mummyoflittledragon

C8H1 Has nailed it. This arrant nonsense that women can’t organise a night out unless they also organise something for perfectly capable men is just an example of male power in action. It certainly isn’t a concern you see expressed on male dominated groups.

Exactly. I don’t think this outrage would be seen if this was posted on a male dominated forum where a man would ask if he was being unreasonable for organizing a men’s night out. Some here even call it sexism. If people would pour the same effort into speaking up when women are being discriminated there would be huge progress in equality. But oh no the poor menz.

@saraclara

The easiest thing to do is to get one of the dads, who is good at networking / you know very well to start a separate group for the dads. That’s what happened when dd was young anyway.

In other words, tell them that they don't belong here because of their sex, and they should go and make their own group. So basically what women were told for centuries.
It's called sexism and exclusion.

And given that the WhatsApp group is a class one for various purposes, not just social things, you're excluding them from school knowledge and information that you're sharing too.

That's absolutely appalling.

When will we start caring about and prioritising male feelings????? It’s an outrage!

It’s perfectly acceptable for oppressed groups to create social spaces without the oppressive class present. The poor little men will survive somehow.

@saraclara this is the problem, some parents seem to be prioritising the group for organising social events rather than using it as communication tool about the school/class. This tends to be what happens with these groups so a number of parents leave them as they get fed up with that side of things, and the cliques that tend to develop, and then miss out on the information about the class (the actual purpose of the group).

So people complaining about certain parents on the group, shouldn’t be happening as it is not meant to be a group about the parents, it is meant to be a communication tool about the class.

It’s perfectly acceptable for oppressed groups to create social spaces without the oppressive class present.

It's acceptable for them to choose to do so if their own volition.

It's not perfectly acceptable to tell them that they should, and make it clear that they don't belong in the main group. .

This group exists for all parents of the children in the class. That is the only requirement of membership. No-one should be encouraged to leave a group that they are entitled to be a member of, by those who wish it to only comprise those of their own sex. Be they female or male.

@saraclara

It’s perfectly acceptable for oppressed groups to create social spaces without the oppressive class present.

It's acceptable for them to choose to do so if their own volition.

It's not perfectly acceptable to tell them that they should, and make it clear that they don't belong in the main group. .

This group exists for all parents of the children in the class. That is the only requirement of membership. No-one should be encouraged to leave a group that they are entitled to be a member of, by those who wish it to only comprise those of their own sex. Be they female or male.

They’re not being told to leave the group. They’re being told that they aren’t invited to a social event. One single social event.

Also “entitled” is about right in this case.

When I’m actual fact, they have no entitlement to attend a ladies’ night out.

@ChaneySays

And you think that’s because men are incapable of starting their own groups on WhatsApp?

It's a parents group, not a woman's group. The fact you think they should be excluded because of their gender illustrates the problem! Thankfully, most posters seem to agree that the OP is BU.

I don’t - I said upthread, she should organise events outside of the group if there are people in the group who aren’t invited.

But it’s so strange to me how many people on this thread think men, actual grown men with children, are so week and pathetic that they need the mothers to organise them. The idea that men should set their own group up and cast the net a bit wider themselves is such an alien concept to so many of you - men have literally been compared to children on this thread by posters who somehow think that’s a valid comparison. Mind boggling.

They’re not being told to leave the group. They’re being told that they aren’t invited to a social event. One single social event

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken My post that you initially responded to, was my response to the person who said that the two men should leave and set up their own group.

@saraclara

They’re not being told to leave the group. They’re being told that they aren’t invited to a social event. One single social event

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken My post that you initially responded to, was my response to the person who said that the two men should leave and set up their own group.

They don’t have to leave the main parenting group in order to set up their own dads’ group.

They don’t have to leave the main parenting group in order to set up their own dads’ group.

If they want an additional group, of course they can form one. But that wasn't what was being suggested.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

This is awful. The OP is expected to make a new group which is for the mums only, and then only pick the ones she really likes, just so that two men’s feelings aren’t hurt by women daring to prefer to occasionally socialise without male company. And it’s old fashioned to want to do this, but the new modern way of thinking is to prioritise men’s feelings over women’s? Really?

This. Some of the responses are bonkers.

Its been likened to racism
Queen bee ordering grown adults about
Bullying
The same as leaving a child out at the play ground/party
Being left out of a hen do

I think a lot of posters have dragged their own feelings of being left out on to the thread rather than seeing what it really was - a girls night out.

It really isn't that deep - just a girls night out. No need to secret watsaps groups, or other women being left out.

My own DH doesn't even know one is being planned as he is not invited!

I will however suggest that adult events are discussed on a different group away from the school stuff.

The point that the dads could organise something is valid, it is left to the women to organise things, also not once have the women who are married to these men organised anything.

The mum who asked the original question is actually coming, maybe she is relived to be able to have a night out on her own with out her shadow..

men have literally been compared to children on this thread by posters who somehow think that’s a valid comparison. Mind boggling

Quite

@saraclara

The easiest thing to do is to get one of the dads, who is good at networking / you know very well to start a separate group for the dads. That’s what happened when dd was young anyway.

In other words, tell them that they don't belong here because of their sex, and they should go and make their own group. So basically what women were told for centuries.
It's called sexism and exclusion.

And given that the WhatsApp group is a class one for various purposes, not just social things, you're excluding them from school knowledge and information that you're sharing too.

That's absolutely appalling.

I can’t believe you just compared this to the horrifically sexist ways women have been treated through the years with things like being considered property, men given the right to rape their wives etc. It’s incredibly offensive.

If I were in this position, I would organise two events. 1 for all parents and 1 for all moms. Before setting the dates, I would Whatsapp the center-of-attention dad and make sure he and i can make the evening for all parents and then I would send out a whatsapp invite to the group with the two events. That way, I know that center-of-attention dad won't feel left out and I will still get my mom's night out in peace.

But if a few of us fancy having a 'mums' night out, we have to extend it to the rest of the mums on the group, so they don't feel left out then the same two women ask if 'the dads can come too?

I wouldn’t have mums nights out and invite everyone

Id just go out with my friends and then separately with the parents group

However I see that you want to include all the mums which is a nice thing to do and that the situation has been sorted so its all good

Hope you have a lovely time

Gender-segregated socialising is so bloody weird.

@LemonDrizzles

If I were in this position, I would organise two events. 1 for all parents and 1 for all moms. Before setting the dates, I would Whatsapp the center-of-attention dad and make sure he and i can make the evening for all parents and then I would send out a whatsapp invite to the group with the two events. That way, I know that center-of-attention dad won't feel left out and I will still get my mom's night out in peace.

Well that's the difference between you and I.

The lengths we would go to appease one male.

@gannett

Gender-segregated socialising is so bloody weird.

How do you know the gender of the mums?

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

There seems to be totally different attitudes in different places on this one. We live in a very cosmopolitan area where parents are just parents, there isn’t a Dads group and there isn’t a Mums group, the idea that we need different sorts of nights out or that single sex nights out is in any way appealing is baffling. We don’t seem to have leery dads or dads that dominate the conversation. If there is any dominating the conversation that’s usually the mum that’s most like Amanda.

You might be on to something there.

When I lived in a big city, I socialised with lots of SAHDs, & it was pleasant & easy.

However, I now live in a suburb. It's much more TRADITIONAL, in that the women take on the vast majority of the childcare, & the dads tend to be out of the house for twelve hours a day. Honestly, when they do come out, they either avoid eye-contact (in case you, y'know, get the wrong idea), or take over the conversation.

Or they sit at a separate table.

Mostly city types.

This has certainly coloured my view of this thread.

(Not my Nigel, obvs )

If it hasn't been suggested already, could you not text
Mums night out, Fri 8pm, meet at 'The Pub'
Dads night out, Mon 8pm, meet at 'The Pub'

Send a few of your male partners along so there's not just 2 of them on their own. Basically you've included everyone in the group and it's taken nothing to organise it.

@gannett

Gender-segregated socialising is so bloody weird.

Yet here you are, on MUMSnet…

Sex-segregated socialising has saved my sanity on many an occasion.

I think a lot of posters have dragged their own feelings of being left out on to the thread rather than seeing what it really was - a girls night out
own feelings? I've never once felt discriminated by men. Maybe it's because I appreciate their company as much as I accept women and don't ever feel the need to exclude them. From what is the majority of posters on this thread attitude towards men, I am not surprised at all some will face issues with men though.

I will however suggest that adult events are discussed on a different group away from the school stuff
Maybe if you'd said this on page 1, we wouldn't now be on page 26!

The mum who asked the original question is actually coming, maybe she is relived to be able to have a night out on her own with out her shadow
Shadow?? Gosh, what a lovely person you sound! Tolerance doesn't seem to be your forte!