'Are dads invited too?'

[SyIviescup]

So the class watsap is starting to wake up. The majority are women but there a few dads floating about in it. That don't really contribute to the group at all.

There are a few of us who are friendly - not besties but enjoy going for lunch before pick up (if we can) or evening drinks/ meal out (term time as we all seem to disappear during the long summer holidays)

If we organise a play date outing such as at a play area/park ect its an open invite everyone is invited mums & dads, siblings- anyone.

But if a few of us fancy having a 'mums' night out, we have to extend it to the rest of the mums on the group, so they don't feel left out then the same two women ask if 'the dads can come too?'

Which changes the dynamics of the group. I've nothing against either blokes, they are nice, I chat to them at school but its just not the same. The last time they came, we/I was told that more male friendly/fun stuff should be organised like a night out go carting. I did say to him that he was welcome to organise that but it never came to fruition.

Im not the class rep, its not down to me to organise events that men would like, I don't know why they organise fuck all then expect to come out and sit with 10 women and then moan that they could be doing something more 'fun'.

Message this morning -

Person A - Hi every one hope you all had a great summer, a few of us are thinking about have a mums meal and drinks night out for a catch up on the xxxx, if you fancy it let me know so I can book table.

Person B - I'd love too, can dads come too.

@Covidworries

There is a group of 10 playing cards, 9 are men 1 are female. The female is told this is male only cards. Go form your own girly group. The female just wants to play cards, now she has no one to group up with as there isnt any more females in the group. She needs to try harder right its all her own fault (there you go *@Pumperthepumper* does that help you understand exclusion?)

No, I understand exclusion. I understand why the OP doesn’t want that particular father in her group, for example.

What I don’t understand is why that means he can’t go and find (or create!) another group.

@Nesbo

“What’s stopping the dads doing this?”

People like you acting like the fucking Taliban suggesting that a group of people thrown together solely by the fact their children go to the same school should separate into little cliques on the basis of vagina ownership. FFS.

Why would that stop fathers being involved in school life? What’s stopping them making their own group?

The taliban comments are offensive, as were the race ones. Could you stop with those and just speak like a considerate human? Thanks.

I don't think it's fair - as someone whose husband is often "left out" of this sort of thing apparently because he's a man - despite the fact he is the one who does all the school drops off and pick ups, chats to all the school mums, involved in school stuff etc - it's me who gets invited to the WhatsApp groups, etc despite having very little involvement!!

If I get invited to something, why shouldn't he? If you want it to be "mums only" don't ask ask it on the group with the dads involved....

[quote Nesbo]@ButteringMyArse - by power dynamics in this context do you mean women being in the majority and taking the main role in almost everything relating to their children’s school experience, including the classic school gate politics, PTA’s and after school activities/play date organisation?[/quote]
No, as that would be a fuckwitted take.

It would ignore, either through ignorance or disingenuousness, the reality that we live in a society where women as a collective hold much less power and influence than men as a collective, that men don't suffer materially from being underrepresented in these areas whereas women do suffer materially from factors making us overrepresented in issues relating to children's schooling and that men haven't actually chosen to use any of their greater institutional power to try and get into these spheres. It would also minimise the impact that the dynamics of race have on black people's lives, what with that being rather more damaging than not being on the PTA as much.

Those people aren't school gate parents. They're not the ones he met on a daily basis whilst collecting his children. They weren't there. Presumably they were at work and wouldn't be at play dates either!! Jesus!
And wtf are you hawking in "step parents" for? Bizarre.

@PinkSpring

I don't think it's fair - as someone whose husband is often "left out" of this sort of thing apparently because he's a man - despite the fact he is the one who does all the school drops off and pick ups, chats to all the school mums, involved in school stuff etc - it's me who gets invited to the WhatsApp groups, etc despite having very little involvement!!

If I get invited to something, why shouldn't he? If you want it to be "mums only" don't ask ask it on the group with the dads involved....

Does he start WhatsApp groups and organise events?

@GreyhoundG1rl

Those people aren't school gate parents. They're not the ones he met on a daily basis whilst collecting his children. They weren't there. Presumably they were at work and wouldn't be at play dates either!! Jesus! And wtf are you hawking in "step parents" for? Bizarre.

You really do seem to struggle with this, fairly basic, idea. If he was being left out by those particular parents, and that bothered him, why didn’t he form his own group with the others? Through the various ways I outlined?

What I don’t understand is why that means he can’t go and find (or create!) another group.
Maybe he could built them with Lego. Or fashion them out of plasticine.

@GreyhoundG1rl

What I don’t understand is why that means he can’t go and find (or create!) another group. Maybe he could built them with Lego. Or fashion them out of plasticine.

Or join the PTA? Or organise a fundraiser? Or specifically organise a group for other men wanting to be more involved in school life?

You can't really invite only part of a group. Invite all or none or set up a new group.

Class WhatsApp groups exist so someone can remind folk at 7am that they need to send their kids in PE kit that day.

In my experience, when someone suggests a night out, people either:
A) groan, as they barely have enough time for nights out with their actual friends without feeling obliged to fit in an awkward one with people they don't know well
B) feel completely patronised that the friendship group organising it are extending the invitation to the rest of the plebs in an act of charity.

But even if you love that stuff, it is rude excluding the men (and if the majority of members were men, it would be rude to exclude the women). If you make people feel unwelcome, then they will just mute or leave the group. Then they will miss all the helpful reminders, and useful stuff that is the whole point.

New groups can be formed but that doesnt make excluding someone for being male/female, skin colour, height, religion acceptable.

Not one person has said women cant have get together without males. Lots have people have said it isnt fair to promote an event to a small group while leaving out 1 or 2 people from that group.
Lots have people have said that the class whats app should be about school related things, with seperate arangements for select socialising. Plenty of reasonable and explained reasons for this.

The whole “does he organise a Whatsapp group” is a complete red herring. We all know these groups have queen bee types who do all the organising, but they also usually have a lot of other people who are joiners and wouldn’t dream of organising anything like a Whatsapp group themselves. Should they be told to fuck off and organise their own group too? I swear it’s the 1950’s on here some days.

@Pumperthepumper or he could just be included in the already existing group rather than be excluded from certain things because he is a man??

@Covidworries

New groups can be formed but that doesnt make excluding someone for being male/female, skin colour, height, religion acceptable.

Not one person has said women cant have get together without males. Lots have people have said it isnt fair to promote an event to a small group while leaving out 1 or 2 people from that group.
Lots have people have said that the class whats app should be about school related things, with seperate arangements for select socialising. Plenty of reasonable and explained reasons for this.

I said that. I said that the OP can’t send out a group invitation and then be annoyed when group members want to come.

But I don’t think that makes her responsible for all men being included in school life, or for encouraging men to take on more parenting responsibilities, or for setting sexism back or any of the many, many ridiculous things that have been shared on this thread.

@Nesbo

The whole “does he organise a Whatsapp group” is a complete red herring. We all know these groups have queen bee types who do all the organising, but they also usually have a lot of other people who are joiners and wouldn’t dream of organising anything like a Whatsapp group themselves. Should they be told to fuck off and organise their own group too? I swear it’s the 1950’s on here some days.

Well, I’d definitely say they should organise their own group rather than moaning about the output of one they’re totally passive within, yes.

That seems fairly logical.

“Moaning about” meaning “excluded from”?

Because rather than having a big inclusive class group let’s have lots, so that the men, the women, the rich, the poor, the gays the straight, the black, the white, can all socialise in their little groups and maintain their vibe - all the while publicising their meet ups to everyone else to make sure they all know when they’re not invited.

Sounds lovely.

@Nesbo

“Moaning about” meaning “excluded from”?

Because rather than having a big inclusive class group let’s have lots, so that the men, the women, the rich, the poor, the gays the straight, the black, the white, can all socialise in their little groups and maintain their vibe - all the while publicising their meet ups to everyone else to make sure they all know when they’re not invited.

Sounds lovely.

Excluded from, if you like - why not form his own, inclusive group? Why not be proactive?

We’re you ever the kid left out at class? Perhaps “form your own group” means something different if you’ve experienced a majority telling you you’re not welcome and to basically fuck off and find your own friends to play with. It’s not nice. It’s not an attitude I try to teach my kids. The whole school encourages an ethos of inclusivity. If they see a child alone at break time who looks lonely they are supposed to invite them to play.

This attitude seems to run entirely counter to that.

If they see a child alone at break time who looks lonely they are supposed to invite them to play

These are grown men functioning in society at least to the level they have formed a family unit. Neither of whom have apparently shown interest in attending.

This is awful.
The OP is expected to make a new group which is for the mums only, and then only pick the ones she really likes, just so that two men’s feelings aren’t hurt by women daring to prefer to occasionally socialise without male company.
And it’s old fashioned to want to do this, but the new modern way of thinking is to prioritise men’s feelings over women’s?
Really?

@Nesbo

We’re you ever the kid left out at class? Perhaps “form your own group” means something different if you’ve experienced a majority telling you you’re not welcome and to basically fuck off and find your own friends to play with. It’s not nice. It’s not an attitude I try to teach my kids. The whole school encourages an ethos of inclusivity. If they see a child alone at break time who looks lonely they are supposed to invite them to play.

This attitude seems to run entirely counter to that.

And you think a child being excluded is the same as a grown adult with children being excluded?

Once again - is it just segregating by sex which is ok? If so why? Perhaps they could just invite the ones who went to university, let the thickos start their own group.

Night out for the “six figures and above” group, no offence intended but if you’re not earning a half decent salary you’d just feel out of place.

“And you think a child being excluded is the same as a grown adult with children being excluded?”

We don’t try to teach children the lesson of inclusivity and then say - “but forget all that shit when you’re an adult”!

@Nesbo

Once again - is it just segregating by sex which is ok? If so why? Perhaps they could just invite the ones who went to university, let the thickos start their own group.

Night out for the “six figures and above” group, no offence intended but if you’re not earning a half decent salary you’d just feel out of place.

Why? Why not just a group for like-minded parents who fancy meeting new people?