'Are dads invited too?'

[SyIviescup]

So the class watsap is starting to wake up. The majority are women but there a few dads floating about in it. That don't really contribute to the group at all.

There are a few of us who are friendly - not besties but enjoy going for lunch before pick up (if we can) or evening drinks/ meal out (term time as we all seem to disappear during the long summer holidays)

If we organise a play date outing such as at a play area/park ect its an open invite everyone is invited mums & dads, siblings- anyone.

But if a few of us fancy having a 'mums' night out, we have to extend it to the rest of the mums on the group, so they don't feel left out then the same two women ask if 'the dads can come too?'

Which changes the dynamics of the group. I've nothing against either blokes, they are nice, I chat to them at school but its just not the same. The last time they came, we/I was told that more male friendly/fun stuff should be organised like a night out go carting. I did say to him that he was welcome to organise that but it never came to fruition.

Im not the class rep, its not down to me to organise events that men would like, I don't know why they organise fuck all then expect to come out and sit with 10 women and then moan that they could be doing something more 'fun'.

Message this morning -

Person A - Hi every one hope you all had a great summer, a few of us are thinking about have a mums meal and drinks night out for a catch up on the xxxx, if you fancy it let me know so I can book table.

Person B - I'd love too, can dads come too.

I feel really sad for those Dads. It must be hard enough trying to go against social stereotypes without being actively excluded.

If you're trying to organise a night out with actual friends, go for it... but go about it in a different way.

[quote Excelthetube]@AllTheSingleLadiess
Then she shouldn’t have put it on the SCHOOL WhatsApp.
That’s the point isn’t it.
It’s bloody rude to send out a general invitation on a group WhatsApp and then say to some people on it, oh btw you’re not specifically invited.[/quote]
So she should make a WhatsApp group which includes all the mums and only excludes those two dads? How is that any different?

you don't expect others to change the activity because it's 'not really your thing', which is really the point of what the OP is saying
Who said anything about changing. He suggested something else. What's wrong with suggesting a different activity out? Or is it that everyone just has to do what OP wants to do?

It sounds all like 10yo in the background and the bee queen not happy that someone else could shine on their light and is therefore trying everything to exclude them. I guess some people never grow out of the mentality.

Posters are voting that yanbu to WANT a girls only night - as you can socialise with whoever you like.

It is however astonishingly bad manners to organise anything in a WhatsApp group where some members aren't invited, and I am really surprised you don't realise that.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken
Sorry I tagged the wrong person!

I don’t think it’s better, but if it’s a WhatsApp for just people she’s become friends with who happen to be women and she’s having a social outside of the group boring school chat then it’s obviously better. I’m sure people make friends this way.

If she’s just inviting Randoms she doesn’t know then yes she should invite everyone. Because it’s bloody rude not to.

Isn't it funny how the people who moan about things being organized are never the ones who actually expect to do it?

Tbh, I don't see anything wrong with the occasional 'girls only' nights out.

And when OP said he never bothered to organise the go-karting, how does she know? Maybe he had more manners, arrange a separate whatsapp group, and only invited those interested, which clearly wouldn't include her.

So she should make a WhatsApp group which includes all the mums and only excludes those two dads? How is that any different?

When you invite people to a party or whatever, do you announce it in a large group and say "I'm having a party but only X, Y and Z are invited" or do you only speak to X, Y and Z?

@vivainsomnia
Hehehe that’s funny. I hope it’s the case!

Well you're a sexist pig in my opinion.

So she should make a WhatsApp group which includes all the mums and only excludes those two dads? How is that any different?
I very much doubt all the mums on the list want to go on a night out.

I'm glad mine have left school
I can't believe some of the replies here.
I don't think it's sexist. And I don't think it's being exclusive either.
If the men arranged something and said 'Men only' who would care ? Probably nobody.
It's totally different from a situation like excluding children from parties or events!! Men are grown ups ffs.
I know some women can't move without their husbands or partners but good grief.
No yanbu op, at all.

Who said anything about changing. He suggested something else. What's wrong with suggesting a different activity out? Or is it that everyone just has to do what OP wants to do?

@vivainsomnia I'm not sure why you're being deliberately obtuse about this, presumably you're one of those that sticks steadfastedly to their argument without being able to consider the other side?

OP's exact words were: The last time they came, we/I was told that more male friendly/fun stuff should be organised like a night out go carting. I did say to him that he was welcome to organise that but it never came to fruition.

She was told to organise more male friendly stuff. Normal people like you and I would either organise go karting ourselves and invite everyone, or suggest it like, "hey, how about go karting next time, that'd be fun!"

That's not what's happened here. Obviously only OP knows any backstory about these men, the tone used etc, but going purely on what she's said, it was not merely a 'suggestion' as you say, or it would have been framed as I've written above.

There's a lot of generalisations in here. I wouldn't have an issue with men coming to a pub evening out, however these particular men sound a bit whiny if they make a habit of coming out but then complaining about the activity. (A habit I hate when anyone does it, I might add. It happens a lot with PTA meetings, for example. If you want to do something specific, plan it yourself!)

However, we've had loads of lovely guys come along and they've always been just normal and not awkward, so I'm guessing you've got a defective one or something

(agree though, if you don't want to invite every single person in that WA group, make a new group.)

@SoupDragon

So she should make a WhatsApp group which includes all the mums and only excludes those two dads? How is that any different?

When you invite people to a party or whatever, do you announce it in a large group and say "I'm having a party but only X, Y and Z are invited" or do you only speak to X, Y and Z?

Yes this is what I have been trying to express. You form a clique, then organise things within the clique. You don't organise things within the wider group, excluding some.

@SoupDragon

So she should make a WhatsApp group which includes all the mums and only excludes those two dads? How is that any different?

When you invite people to a party or whatever, do you announce it in a large group and say "I'm having a party but only X, Y and Z are invited" or do you only speak to X, Y and Z?

We have an extended family group chat for cousins and aunts and uncles. Before covid, we regularly floated the idea of girls’ nights on it. Once interest was confirmed we’d move to a separate groups so the messages didn’t get annoying to those didn’t want to / couldn't come None of the men in the family spat their dummies out.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken
I mean that’s totally different!

As many others have said, I'm the only female at work and I'd be quite upset if someone announced a boys night on the work WhatsApp chat. Then again, I'd probably be hurt if they all went out and tried to keep it hidden from me.
It's the being left out based on something I have no control of...like my sex.

If the men arranged something and said 'Men only' who would care ? Probably nobody

I would if they were doing something more fun than going to the pub!

@vivainsomnia

If you want to ignore spectacularly obvious examples of male entitlement, crack on, but other women more capable than you of recognising it are not the sexist ones here Someone has a bee in the bonnet! Maybe I'll quote you next time there is a thread about women being left out of social groups in their male dominated work environment. I'll mention female entitlement and see where that goes!

Well you seem to enjoy advertising your inability to recognise sexism, so yeah, that would probably be a good course of action for you. There'd also no doubt be posts in response explaining the rather massive distinction in power dynamics between something that controls people's livelihood and something that doesn't, so while I don't expect you to take any of that on board, it's always positive to have these things discussed for the sake of general awareness.

It’s very much a “you’re not wanted because of your sex”

Rather than “I made friends with jan and Edith and molly, is it ok to go out for a night alone with them” to which the answer would be, sure! Just don’t announce it in the group chat.

@Eyesofdisarray
Perhaps your one of those older generation that thinks it’s ok to exclude people because of sex. But I would be fucking pissed off if I was excluded as a woman from something that was only men, if it was in this context.

[quote Excelthetube]@Eyesofdisarray
Perhaps your one of those older generation that thinks it’s ok to exclude people because of sex. But I would be fucking pissed off if I was excluded as a woman from something that was only men, if it was in this context.[/quote]
So women can never arrange to meet up without men?

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

You’re being ridiculous now!! I don’t even know how you came to that conclusion but all I can surmise is you’re deliberately being obtuse.

I genuinely don't see the appeal of going on what is essentially a school trip for parents. Organise it privately with your own group of mates if you want to go out. It's bloody rude to exclude people based on their sex. The group's surely to discuss school matters, not arrange your social life.