'Are dads invited too?'

[SyIviescup]

So the class watsap is starting to wake up. The majority are women but there a few dads floating about in it. That don't really contribute to the group at all.

There are a few of us who are friendly - not besties but enjoy going for lunch before pick up (if we can) or evening drinks/ meal out (term time as we all seem to disappear during the long summer holidays)

If we organise a play date outing such as at a play area/park ect its an open invite everyone is invited mums & dads, siblings- anyone.

But if a few of us fancy having a 'mums' night out, we have to extend it to the rest of the mums on the group, so they don't feel left out then the same two women ask if 'the dads can come too?'

Which changes the dynamics of the group. I've nothing against either blokes, they are nice, I chat to them at school but its just not the same. The last time they came, we/I was told that more male friendly/fun stuff should be organised like a night out go carting. I did say to him that he was welcome to organise that but it never came to fruition.

Im not the class rep, its not down to me to organise events that men would like, I don't know why they organise fuck all then expect to come out and sit with 10 women and then moan that they could be doing something more 'fun'.

Message this morning -

Person A - Hi every one hope you all had a great summer, a few of us are thinking about have a mums meal and drinks night out for a catch up on the xxxx, if you fancy it let me know so I can book table.

Person B - I'd love too, can dads come too.

[quote Covidworries]@Pumperthepumper
He not moaning 20 yrs later. Im mentioning his experience as its relevent to the thread

He is quiet and easy going, not unlikeable but by reading this thread its clear mums like the female onle dynamic, 20 yrs ago mainly mums did pick up which made it difficult to arrange a dads night out. He did chat to mums but its difficult balance. He arranged playdates for the children.
But group get togethers he wasnt in the mum club so didnt get invited.
Can you imagine the possible misunderstanding if he started asking mums at the school gate if they fancied meeting for a drink.[/quote]
Less of a misunderstanding if a woman approached a single man?

Why didn’t he start a dad club? Why not be proactive?

@Winemewhynot

This post is batshit, it’s sexist and discrimination to have a mums night out organised on the class chat? Are the men really that precious that it should be discussed privately incase someone is upset?!

If OP set up a new group I’m sure some posters would be declaring that she’s forming cliques and segregating the group

So would you call the black parent, the older parent, the fatter parent, the unmarried parent, the disabled parent, the gay parent or the parent excluded for any other spurious biological reason, “precious” if they were upset about being the excluded parent in the parents’ WhatsApp group. Or is it just men that should not be upset about being excluded.

It really is ironic that this is a parents group as you would hope most parents teach their children not to exclude people and that it is a form of bullying to do so.

However, it's more off that the men get to dictate that the get together activity isn't 'manly' enough and veto suggestions to something they want to do like go karting. If the ratio of men/women was the other way, the minority women would never say, "this isn't girly enough, how about we all go have our nails done instead?"!!!

Yep!

I don't actually agree with the OP here because I don't think it's polite to only invite some people in a what's app group to your event, but the male entitlement is really telling.

Really the issue here is that you are considering this group for something else than it is. You say you don't want them to come because it changes the dynamics. Dynamics of what? It sounds like you are using the group to form a new friendship group, with you picking who would make good friends.

This group was set up to discuss matters of children and school, of which dads are perfectly capable of making a contribution. If instead of discussing teachers, material use, homework, and school dinners, you want to discuss make-up, sexy celebrities, and best cocktails, then you are using the wrong forum.

Ofgs.

The purpose of the school whatsapp group is to share information and to provide a contact point for all the parents together.

If you wish to be cliquey and start conversations which are playground level 'you can come but boys aren't allowed to play' then quite frankly, you are part of the problem.

Its sexist. Its alienating. Its down right nasty.

It destroys any sort of community between parents by driving a massive wedge.

If you want a social 'with just the girls', just start a social chat for girls night out.

Honestly the parent chat drives me nuts at the best of times. All this juvenile crap, would send me over the bloody edge.

My son has been on the recieving end of sexist bullying. I know damn well where its come from. I'd make no hestitation of saying that.

Why should he have to start a Dads club? Didn’t we drop such sexist nonsense before we started primary school? Who on earth can only socialise with one sex? Broaden your horizons OP!

This would bug me too. I don't understand women who won't go anywhere without their husbands. I'd feel suffocated (and so would my DH) if we only ever socialised as a couple.

I've never heard of anyone being upset that they were the wrong sex for a mum's night out/dad's night out and feel left out. I almost understand if you're a 7 year old but even then it's not unusual for boys to only invite boys or girls to only invite girls to their birthday party - and really you should learn at this age that you're not going to be invited to everything!

It's just typical that the men don't bother to organise anything themselves but then just think they'll be ok to turn up when somebody - a woman - organises something. I'd also feel very awkward if suddenly everyone decided to come as a couple and I was the only one on my own.

Among my friends we very often arrange women-only nights out. Not because we don’t like the men in our circle, but because without fail, if you organise a night for everyone, the fathers and childfree will turn up, and the mothers will be stuck at home with the kids. Making it “men not invited” is the only way to ensure that this doesn’t happen.

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

Why should he have to start a Dads club? Didn’t we drop such sexist nonsense before we started primary school? Who on earth can only socialise with one sex? Broaden your horizons OP!

Because that Op is complaining her husband was excluded from the mum’s club. My point is, if he felt he was being left out because of his sex, why not start his own and use it as a way of getting more men involved? Why was it the women’s responsibility to make sure he had pals?

I don't actually agree with the OP here because I don't think it's polite to only invite some people in a what's app group to your event, but the male entitlement is really telling
Interesting how this has been turned into a male entitlement suggestion. In my group of mums, the majority would have loved the suggestion of go karting, whether made by another mum or dad.

Interesting too the assumption that he was suggesting OP should arrange it. He said nothing of such. He offered a suggestion of another activity. One for member of the group to consider. One that maybe if enough had agreed, he would have been more than happy to organise.

Some mums here come across as really clique indeed. I'm starting to understand why there are regular posts here of mums feeling they don't belong. I'm so glad if there were any such mums at my kids' school, I had nothing to do with them.

@Aprilx

You can’t seriously be comparing men not been invited to on a girls night out to someone being excluded due to skin colour

@Winemewhynot

This post is batshit, it’s sexist and discrimination to have a mums night out organised on the class chat? Are the men really that precious that it should be discussed privately incase someone is upset?!

If OP set up a new group I’m sure some posters would be declaring that she’s forming cliques and segregating the group

Yes it would!

@ButteringMyArse

The last time they came, we/I was told that more male friendly/fun stuff should be organised like a night out go carting. I did say to him that he was welcome to organise that but it never came to fruition.

That part would've fucked me off royally. Heaven forbid they take some responsibility for organising group go karting themselves.

It did.

The bottom line seems to be this OP:

Whole class parent group - invitations to events go out to all

If you want to exclude some people, whether that is due to sec or whatever then you need a separate What's App group. It's rude to use the full group chat for exclusive events.

The parents at my daughter's primary school were really close and dads very involved with their kids (and a dad was a class representative). Still, the moms would organize a moms night out 2-3 times a year. The dads weren't included because we liked our nights out and also because someone needed to watch the kids and it wasn't fair that some dads could come and others couldn't.

One mom once joked that because the dads feel excluded she was arranging a dads night out too. Yup, she had to arrange it cause none of the dads would, and she only did it once.

I think these moms nights out helped me get closer to the other moms when my daughter first joined the school, in a way that wouldn't be possible if it was parents dinners.

Now that our kids are teenagers (and at different schools) we still try to go out for dinner every now and then and reserve one big table for the parents and one for the kids. The moms still meet whenever we want to.

@vivainsomnia

I don't actually agree with the OP here because I don't think it's polite to only invite some people in a what's app group to your event, but the male entitlement is really telling Interesting how this has been turned into a male entitlement suggestion. In my group of mums, the majority would have loved the suggestion of go karting, whether made by another mum or dad.

Interesting too the assumption that he was suggesting OP should arrange it. He said nothing of such. He offered a suggestion of another activity. One for member of the group to consider. One that maybe if enough had agreed, he would have been more than happy to organise.

Some mums here come across as really clique indeed. I'm starting to understand why there are regular posts here of mums feeling they don't belong. I'm so glad if there were any such mums at my kids' school, I had nothing to do with them.

Laughable the lengths that some women will go to in order to not see male entitlement.

In this instance, the male entitlement is illustrated by a male suggesting to a woman that something male friendly ought to be organised. Not that he would do it, despite clearly being suitably placed as one of the only men in the majority female group, but that it should happen. He didn't do it himself, despite it being suggested to him. You correctly point out that plenty of women like go karting too, so there's every reason for any interested man who doesn't think catering to him is the job of women to crack on and do it himself. But he hasn't. Because his view is that it should be done, rather than that he should do it. They are quite different things.

Very, very glad I don't have this petty shit to put up with any longer.

@vivainsomnia I'm not a mum, and think I'm being pretty objective here based on the info in the OP. I genuinely think that most women who were a minority in a group wouldn't pipe up to get the 'activity' changed from what was suggested. Instead, they would either go/not go to the existing one and then arrange a different one that they thought was more 'inclusive' if they felt that strongly.

The term 'male entitlement' is a loaded one, but that's what it boils down to, even on a superficial level. One sex is socialised to not rock the boat, the other is socialised to have 'yes' mostly said to their requests.

This isn't an attack on men or male entitlement, but I do find the psychology of it quite fascinating, especially in a mild scenario like this.

@vivainsomnia

If OP set up a new group I’m sure some posters would be declaring that she’s forming cliques and segregating the group She is forming a clique by declaring that a night out is for girls only.

They can arrange as many groups as they want. There could be a 'go karting' group, or 'ann summers' one. I know which one I'd join!

Well that's it now - no girls nights out ever....

One mom once joked that because the dads feel excluded she was arranging a dads night out too. Yup, she had to arrange it cause none of the dads would, and she only did it once.

Surprise surprise!

@BabyLeaf

And yeah, it's a faux pas and rude to boot to tell an entire group about a particular social plan while some of the group aren't invited. We teach little kids that, surely most adults are aware of it?

I'm not sure I agree...

"Helen and I have started going to pottery class together. She keeps teasing me because my cups are wonky."

"Our family is going away with the Robinsons in July. It's forecast rain and we're camping so keep everything crossed for us!"

"I'm so looking forward to going to the opera on Friday. Jane was going and had an extra ticket!"

I wouldn't think twice about sharing my social plans with people who aren't invited. I don't think any of these are rude unless you're inviting everyone except one person, or excluding someone to be nasty.

And this is why primary school social stuff is hard work

Just pick the mums who you speak to most and set up a different WhatsApp group and plan a night out. The dads can sort themselves out if they want. You can’t please everyone all of the time.

I think sharing can be ok, it's the inviting that's the issue. So there'd be nothing wrong with mentioning to some other people that you're going to a pottery class with Helen, but wouldn't invite Helen through a group what's app with a load of other people you weren't asking to come along. You'd arrange it with her separately.

@azimuth299 I assume you wouldn't post that on a class WhatsApp group. In my mind a class WhatsApp group should be about school, a bit like a newsletter but with the focus on that particular class. It is not for sorting out your or your child's social life. The problem is when you start bringing in too much social stuff, it tends to get overtaken by some parents and it then puts other parents off from joining