WIBU discharging myself from hospital

[Carrottopppp]

Sorry if this is long but it's important I tell you every detail to give the full story. Saturday evening I woke from a nap to find myself really sore and swollen in my groin and part of my pubis, overnight it swelled considerably went really red and painful to walk, sit, stand etc, I called OOH gp Sunday morning who got me an urgent appointment at our urgent treatment centre within A&E. App was at 9.30am with an absolutely lovely doctor who left no stone unturned and said I had developed an abscess and it needed draining urgently due to the risk of sepsis and the fact it had literally appeared out of nowhere and had grown 4x4 inches literally overnight. He got me an appointment with emergency surgical ambulatory care for 2.15pm yesterday, I attended the nurse took one look and said "no surgeon on this ward will touch that as it is on your pubis not your groin" she sent me back to urgent care and the doctor I saw that morning took me back to his room had another look then said its definitely a groin abscess but we'll let gynae have a look anyway, he sent me up to the gynae ward, 3 different doctors took a look but it was the most senior surgeon on the ward who said it actually is groin, not his area of expertise and also due to the amount of blood vessels in the area he couldn't touch it, so I waited and he came back and said I had to go back to emergency surgical ambulatory care as its them who deal with these things. So off I went an as soon as I walked in I was met by the same nurse who told me she had spoken to a surgeon up on surgical assessment ward and that they were waiting for me and expecting me and I may be treated as a golden patient I. E doctor has a look at it then books me a time to go back the next day and have it removed so off I went up to the ward.

Now this is where I started losing my rag mentally, met by a nurse on the ward who asks another lady to show me to my bed and she said "ill be with you in a minute" yeah you guessed it, never saw her again. I was shown my bed obs done and that's it never saw anybody again, nobody knew when the doctor was coming to speak to me, nobody could tell me whether or not I could eat or drink by this point I hadn't eaten in 26 hours, Its on my notes that I'm on antibiotics yet nobody asked if I was due any (I was but mine were at home as nobody told me when all this started that I would become an inpatient), I waited hours, I had absolutely no overnight stuff with me, I got frustrated and I went to the nurses station to let them know I'm discharging myself and have someone call me to arrange to go back in when it's convenient. The nurse couldn't even find the doctors number to call and ask permission to sign off the discharge, and with that I left.

So to clarify I'd been in and out of hospital for 12 hours, I was no further forward than knowing I had an abscess, i had 4 doctors, 2 nurses and a receptionist all having a gander at my genitals, I was passed from place to place, I walked in agony the entire length of our hospital 1/2 mile 3 times, nobody could tell me what the hell was happening and all the prodding and poking aggravated the abscess to the point it doubled in size and started spreading down my leg. WIBU, maybe I was but I was frustrated, tired and I hadn't eaten in 28 hours. I'm planning on attending A&E this morning and hopefully try and get somewhere, I'm due back in work tomorrow and need it removing as my job requires me to be on my feet for 8 hours a day and don't want to be walking around in pain.

This is exactly all my experiences with the NHS I'm afraid. And I can't bear this culture whereby we all have to be slavishly grateful for the mere existence of the NHS that we're never allowed to complain when we receive really very poor treatment. I also agree that the communication is by far and away the worst problem- the poor nurses take so much flack because no one seems to have any idea where the doctors are, or when they might pop in.

To leave you unwell, in pain, by yourself, no access to food or water, no indication of how/when this might get sorted? I'd be in contact with PALS.

@Carrottopppp
Good luck OP, it's hard not being in control, and difficult when better communication could make it more bearable. I know I would have felt the same. Hope you have water, antibiotics and reading material, and have advised work of your situation. Sit back and wait. It's all you can do. Speedy recovery.

Glad you've gone back OP, hopefully it's a better experience for you today and less being bounced between different departments.

Can't say I am slavishly grateful for the existence of the NHS - and have sampled healthcare and paid taxes for it in a few countries.

No system can avoid "surprising" a visitor to A&E by admitting them, and no system I've encountered has doctors on tap on a Sunday - NHS may be at the extreme end, but they do have other patients and procedures to deal with. It would be good if, instead of jumping to discharging oneself / complaining to PALS / condemning the NHS and all its works, people let their needs be known, or explained that anxiety might prevent this. This doesn't sound like a perfect experience but unless you explain that you need meds / are in too much pain to walk, no-one can deal with that.

I'm surprised OP was asked to walk so far - nearly four miles - on her own, and that she wasn't sent with a porter or seen on a ward. The rest is just waiting for surgery in a safe place - standard practice.

@ViceLikeBlip

This is exactly all my experiences with the NHS I'm afraid. And I can't bear this culture whereby we all have to be slavishly grateful for the mere existence of the NHS that we're never allowed to complain when we receive really very poor treatment. I also agree that the communication is by far and away the worst problem- the poor nurses take so much flack because no one seems to have any idea where the doctors are, or when they might pop in.

To leave you unwell, in pain, by yourself, no access to food or water, no indication of how/when this might get sorted? I'd be in contact with PALS.

I have no issue people complaining when they have had poor treatment, but that needs to be done through the right channels.

The op discharging herself and then complaining on here about everything isn’t going to lead to any change at all, other than a quite possible change for the worse in her health.

I feel very privileged that we have a service such as the NHS what I don't agree with is my medical problem being shouted from the rooftops, lack of communication and being paraded around in front of all kinds of doctors, nurses etc until they found where it was I needed to be.

That is just what being in a big busy hospital is like. There’s no point being a snowflake about it. The hustle and bustle and being shunted from a to z to figure out the cause and the best treatment plan is just how the system works, it’s not personal.

A few years ago I had literally out of the blue a sudden onset of acute abdominal pain at home. After some time of worsening pain, cramps, fever, rang DH who’s a surgeon for a rundown of options as I couldn’t work out what it was, got myself to A&E.

There were various options - miscarriage, ovarian cyst torsion, appendicitis etc - but it took a lot of zigzagging between departments, scans, being prodded by lots of different doctors, off to different department for a better scan etc before they decided appendicitis, nil by mouth until surgery the next day. And then there as a major road accident so my surgery was postponed.

If you’re well-adjusted you don’t take any of it personally. And you certainly don’t flounce off halfway wasting everyone’s time because you think you’re not getting the treatment you deserve.

So you were given a bed, discharged yourself and now expect another bed. Yes YABU

@Motherofalittledragon

So you were given a bed, discharged yourself and now expect another bed. Yes YABU

Oh no she doesn’t want a bed. She wants them to give her an exact time to come back and have the operation when it suits her!

Can I just make it clear - I didn’t make the comment ‘And it isn’t free, we aren’t lucky, it’s shit’. I was responding to the poster of that comment and asking what would be their solution. It’s so easy to criticise - not so easy to fix.

Despite my posts seeming harsh toward the OP, I’m not entirely unsympathetic. I have a disability and have spent most of my life in and out of hospital, so I’m used to the system, but I have a different perspective having received fantastic care over the years, including critical care on several occasions, which I consider to be second to none. Not saying that shit care like the OP experienced doesn’t happen, but when it does, I don’t think it’s deliberate - just a consequence of the stresses on the system.

For years, the NHS has been a target for successive government cuts and chaotic reorganisation. The pandemic shone the spotlight on the cumulative effects of this, and money was pumped in. When we have to deal with repaying the debt caused by Covid, I have no doubt that the NHS will be at the forefront of cuts again - forgive me for thinking that the 8pm ‘clap for the NHS’ was disingenuous, hypocritical shite, when months later, Boris and co had their excuses ready for the abysmal NHS pay awards.

I have no idea how to fix the system, but I do know that the churlish way the OP has behaved doesn’t help - if, as a result of her own actions, she ends up seriously ill, she will no doubt absolve herself of all responsibility and place the blame on the NHS.

Abscesses can be done under local but depends on where they are and how big they are and local anaesthetic doesn’t work as well due to the pH being different when you have an infection like an abscess so therefore they don’t work as well. Hence why many end up under general anaesthetic because it would just be barbaric otherwise.

Emergency lists are complex, can be anything from an abscess up to someone with a ruptured aneurysm or dead bowel that needs removing. We try and get through as many cases as we can but there can always be an emergency that rolls through and needs to go straight away and less urgent cases get bumped down the list. It is unfortunate but the sickest patients have to go first.

Pack a bag for a 3 night stay. Tell your boss your sick. You're at high risk of sepsis and should be on the pathway for that. I say 3 nights for pre op, day of op and recovery. Go to A&E, do not give up your bed if you get one. Also contact your gp to keep them in the loop. If you've got a good gp they will keep pushing for treatment.

@Zombiemum1946

Pack a bag for a 3 night stay. Tell your boss your sick. You're at high risk of sepsis and should be on the pathway for that. I say 3 nights for pre op, day of op and recovery. Go to A&E, do not give up your bed if you get one. Also contact your gp to keep them in the loop. If you've got a good gp they will keep pushing for treatment.

Do GPs really do that - keep pushing for treatment while their patients are in hospital for something like this? Why? Sounds like a dreadful use of their time. I had no idea anyone would expect that.

@ViceLikeBlip

This is exactly all my experiences with the NHS I'm afraid. And I can't bear this culture whereby we all have to be slavishly grateful for the mere existence of the NHS that we're never allowed to complain when we receive really very poor treatment. I also agree that the communication is by far and away the worst problem- the poor nurses take so much flack because no one seems to have any idea where the doctors are, or when they might pop in.

To leave you unwell, in pain, by yourself, no access to food or water, no indication of how/when this might get sorted? I'd be in contact with PALS.

This. I know we are are all supposed to grovel and be so grateful for anything from the NHS. But the amount of funding is astronomical and a great deal is wasted.

I nearly lost my DC1 after being admitted with severe morning sickness and severe dehydration - they put me on nil by mouth and left me for 8 hours until someone visited me and created Merry hell- I nearly died and lost the baby. Took weeks in hospital to recover and during my few hospital stays I’ve always seen shocking care if not me then to others. We keep being told to be grateful, that it’s on its knees and it’s free etc my own experience is that it’s not free, vast amounts are wasted on managers and stuff that isn’t needed and some staff couldn’t give a crap about their jobs.

No one likes being in hospital. And they're not hotels, either. Plus, there's a pandemic on, not helped by those who, for whatever reason, have not had their vaccine.

I suspect you can write off going to work this week (at least).

Good luck with it all. I've had abscesses drained before and it's really unpleasant.

@TatianaBis

I feel very privileged that we have a service such as the NHS what I don't agree with is my medical problem being shouted from the rooftops, lack of communication and being paraded around in front of all kinds of doctors, nurses etc until they found where it was I needed to be.

That is just what being in a big busy hospital is like. There’s no point being a snowflake about it. The hustle and bustle and being shunted from a to z to figure out the cause and the best treatment plan is just how the system works, it’s not personal.

A few years ago I had literally out of the blue a sudden onset of acute abdominal pain at home. After some time of worsening pain, cramps, fever, rang DH who’s a surgeon for a rundown of options as I couldn’t work out what it was, got myself to A&E.

There were various options - miscarriage, ovarian cyst torsion, appendicitis etc - but it took a lot of zigzagging between departments, scans, being prodded by lots of different doctors, off to different department for a better scan etc before they decided appendicitis, nil by mouth until surgery the next day. And then there as a major road accident so my surgery was postponed.

If you’re well-adjusted you don’t take any of it personally. And you certainly don’t flounce off halfway wasting everyone’s time because you think you’re not getting the treatment you deserve.

I think the staff on the floor by and large do a fantastic job. But I think medical professionals who work in that environment day in day out sometimes lose sight of the fact that most patients really don't understand the system, and don't understand what to expect. And why should they if they've not been in that position before!

Waiting around is one thing, but waiting around on your own, when you're scared and confused and in pain is different.

If course, the ideal solution would be for hospitals to be staffed and funded properly, so they could accommodate emergencies alongside routine proceedures.

Good luck OP

@Carrottopppp, I know exactly how painful and awful this is because I suffer from hidradenitis suppurative and have had, unfortunately, several incisions done in general anesthesia to address abscesses in gluteal or groin area - two of which were close to sepsis.

The explanation I was given is that a tissue that inflamed doesn't react well to local anesthesia - sometimes at all which is why these interventions are done in general anesthesia if abscess is above certain size. Unfortunately, due to possible complications after general anesthesia you have to stay for monitoring and also - big abscesses have drains in them that have to be removed by a surgeon or a nurse before you're released home for wound dressing at your local GP. Trust me - you do NOT want that done by a local GP (even if that was a possibility).

I honestly think you need to check yourself back in and let them get on with it - the ward and all - it really is necessary for abscesses of that size, especially those accompanied with fever etc.

I wish you the best of luck - that pain, I wouldn't wish on an enemy.

This. I know we are are all supposed to grovel and be so grateful for anything from the NHS. But the amount of funding is astronomical and a great deal is wasted.

I nearly lost my DC1 after being admitted with severe morning sickness and severe dehydration - they put me on nil by mouth and left me for 8 hours until someone visited me and created Merry hell- I nearly died and lost the baby. Took weeks in hospital to recover and during my few hospital stays I’ve always seen shocking care if not me then to others. We keep being told to be grateful, that it’s on its knees and it’s free etc my own experience is that it’s not free, vast amounts are wasted on managers and stuff that isn’t needed and some staff couldn’t give a crap about their jobs.

Sorry to hear that and glad you were okay.

That just doesn't sound like what happened to the OP, though?

And I haven't seen anyone on the thread saying we should put up and be grateful because the NHS is free. But where we have the capacity, as adults, we should communicate problems, understand that the situation is fluid, and be patient - otherwise we are putting more pressure on people and systems than necessary. The OP waited 5-6 hours max on a ward, with full use of her capacities to request meds / fluid. There was no scandal here. She is anxious about hospitals, and that is a tough situation - working on communication and expectations is tough too, but probably the best solution in her case - yours sounds completely different, of course.

As she's already been seen and listed for surgery, the gp will be able to check on the system who had overall responsibility for her care. This means the gp can contact them directly explain the situation and push for re admission. This is also another way of formalising and documenting the situation.

@Zombiemum1946

As she's already been seen and listed for surgery, the gp will be able to check on the system who had overall responsibility for her care. This means the gp can contact them directly explain the situation and push for re admission. This is also another way of formalising and documenting the situation.

Oh I see, thanks.

Good luck OP. Hope you get it sorted it sounds horrendous.

Compare and contrast however:
France - unstable fracture
Prompt ambulance
Taken directly to a hospital with acute, emergency orthopaedic facilities
Booked in, Xrayed, seen promptly by a specialist Dr and arm put in half slab. Nurses general Dr concerned about other injuries/grazes etc
Within two hours in a private room with private bath (option to pay for this) and made comfortable and kept informed.
Surgery undertaken (other emergencies) within 48 hours - discharged 6 hrs after surgery with 10 day supply of pain relief and local physician visited within first 24 hours of being home. Hospital Dr called the next day. Have correspondence and cd of Xrays for UK Dr's when we are home.

UK
Wait for ambulance
8-10 hours in A&E waiting room
Reduction in resus
Utter chaos and limited communication alongside staff speaking rudely to all and sundry
No specialists at hospital
Patched up and sent home with 3 days' pain relief and told to make Dr's apt for more.
Call two days later to say pins and plates needed, reduction couldn't have helped, come in Tuesday am. Tuesday day care runs out of time and no beds so sent home. Back Wednesday - op takes place at 3pmish. Home by 8pm. Go to GP if you need more pain relief.

France last weekend; UK mother 2019.
Tell me which is better for the patient and which is more cost effective.

I vote for a continental social care system every time and the staff in it don't assume the patient is either always wrong or there is a need to raise their voice.

Waiting around is one thing, but waiting around on your own, when you're scared and confused and in pain is different.

Which is most people in A&E. My general rule of thumb in situations I don’t like is: “What would the SAS do?” The answer is generally: pull yourself together, keep calm and carry on.

You want an NHS like France, you need to pay for it. And you need to not repeatedly choose hard right governments who starve the NHS of funds due to ideological preference for the US health system.

Any country you can point to a better health system you can equally point to others that are far worse.

I would so head for the French hospital if that was an option :)

But the OP's situation isn't bad. They made the diagnosis, took care of getting her to a ward, needed prompting on the meds. It sounds as if she had a frustrating experience, but there's no sign she's not being lined up carefully for the exact treatment she needs.

I'm not sure we help her by coming in with 'the NHS is always rubbish'. It isn't always, but it's better if you are good at advocating for yourself. When I was younger I'd have done most of what the OP did - trudged between depts without complaining, waited and wondered why no-one asked about meds. Now I'd request a porter if I needed help and ask about the meds. Then I'd probably have ended up in tears with the stress and frustration. Now I'd feel more in control and calmer about waiting.

Hope it all works out well now.