What the hell do we do?! (Potential trigger warning)

[Ninhurt]

Dsd has just disclosed to me that she thinks she has been abused. BUT (and I few like a complete monster for saying this) it doesn’t really add up and I’m not sure what to do. I used to be so sure I’d instantly call the police but the details are extremely fuzzy.

For instance dsd said that she thinks a teacher from a hobby when she was younger ‘did something’. She doesn’t know what, and doesn’t remember anything happening. She also said she can’t remember the name of the teacher, then later on said that her older sister had googled him and that he had left the country. She then again said she didn’t know his name (then how did her sister google him?)

She has also named a teacher at her primary school that she said she also thinks ‘did something’. But again, she can’t remember anything that may have happened? Just that she ‘has a feeling’. And she said he hugged her once in the staff room?

Dsd is 19. DH is absolutely distraught and wanted to phone 111 for advice but dsd says she doesn’t want to because she can’t actually remember anything happening. She is absolutely adamant that we can’t tell her mum, but we can tell her aunties and Nan?

I’m not an evil stepmom, we actually have a really good relationship, and I feel awful, but I can’t shake the intuition that this isn’t quite true. Again, I don’t want to think this, but it’s almost like she’s enjoying ‘punishing’ her dads side of the family with this.

DH says we have to leave it (but he and his side of the family are in a complete state). I think we should call the non emergency police number for some sort of advice as you never know. And if it (whatever ‘it’ is) is true then this teacher is now a deputy head at a primary school?

DH and dsd are both very against this idea. I feel extremely unsettled and am worried about dsd wondering what else may be wrong (as I don’t think she’d make something like this up flippantly).

Ninhurt I'm so sorry you're going through this.

I think it may be helpful to think about strategies for coping with this as it unfolds, rather than trying to find a solution.

Firstly, you need to set your boundaries. No matter how vulnerable and victimised someone is, this does not give them carte blanche to hurt others. While you can decide to be forgiving of poor behaviour and continue to offer support in spite of it, you have a right to put in place boundaries that protect you and other members of the family (eg your DD). Ultimately, if you all end up broken from trying to deal with it you won't be in a position to help DSD at all.

Decide on the message you want to give DSD. It's entirely possible to keep reiterating that you believe her, that you will listen to her, that you understand that she is confused, angry and may sometimes lash out and you will forgive this, and that and will support her to get the appropriate help but at the same time make it clear you will not tolerate physical violence and won't always be comfortable doing what she wants you to do immediately (i.e. tell other family members) and will need time to reflect on whether you can and/or how best to go about it.

You can say that removing yourselves (or her) from a situation if she goes to assault you is necessary and will inevitably shut down conversation until she is calmer. Likewise, explain you will not get drawn into confrontations with other family members caused by her telling them things about you. That achieves nothing and you will only engage in conversations aimed at discussing how you can all work best together to support her.

Explain that as adults not going through what she is going through you have a duty to think about the consequences for everyone in a way she doesn't. This might mean things don't move as quickly as she would like but that doesn't make you wrong or mean that you don't love or support her only that you are trying to see the bigger picture which will he in her best interests in the long term which she might not be able to see herself at the moment because she is so traumatised . Also acknowledge that you are not experts and might not always get it right and will admit when you get it wrong. This is as new to you as her newly remembered trauma is to her and you are learning as you go along.

Boundary setting does not mean you don't care. She may be so traumatised and angry she cannot see this and respond badly, but it won't help if you let your boundaries be overrun. If she does have a MH condition (entirely possible as a result of her trauma) enabling disordered behaviour could lead to more serious consequences, such as reducing her ability to form healthy relationships with people in the future or potentially gaining her a criminal record (if she assaults someone and police got involved).

All you can do is listen, gently keep offering the support you are prepared to give, and encourage her to take control herself of how she manages things, be that reporting to the police, seeking trauma counselling, seeking mental health support or any combination of these.

Lastly, on the subject of protecting others, there is nothing to stop you passing the suspected abusers name to the police without involving your DSD at all. The truth is that with the facts as they are at present, there is no evidence for the police to put to the suspect. They would not be interviewing him or even starting an investigation with what you know at present. They would need your DSD to be willing to engage with them and provide more detail. Therefore, this is outside your control. However, you could provide his name as a possible abuser and say you have been disclosed this but the victim wishes to remain anonymous. This would do no more than result in an unconfirmed crime report. No action would be taken, he would not be listed as a suspect, but the information would be there in case of future reports/earlier reports and enable intelligence development if necessary. You could do this through the NSPCC if you preferred.

Good luck.

Such a poignant post @Cloud1921 and you're absolutely right in highlighting that victims are not perfect but they are still victims regardless.

There is a lot of projecting going on on this thread. There are a few possibilities here OP:

1. She is telling the truth and has some kind of very hazy feeling/memory. Given how hazy it is, it is extremely unlikely that both the teachers she mentions were perpetrators. It may not even be one of them, but someone else altogether.
2. She could think she is being truthful but actually nothing happened, she has put 2 and 2 together and made 7. She sounds very unstable which could either be caused by abuse or have caused her to search for a reason and subconsciously create false memories.
3. She could be outright lying. I know pps who have been victims of CSA won't like this suggestion, but it happens more than you think. When it does happen, it is often by teens who are unstable and manipulative - which both her counsellor has noted and she has clearly acted manipulatively towards your husband and outright lied about your actions. Whatever it is, keep an open mind and support your husband the best you can. If she is going to lie about you, I recommend you step back. It must be such a difficult situation but it sounds like you have done everything right and done your best to support her.

I would get her some therapy.

@QuarantineQueen

There is a lot of projecting going on on this thread. There are a few possibilities here OP: 1) She is telling the truth and has some kind of very hazy feeling/memory. Given how hazy it is, it is extremely unlikely that both the teachers she mentions were perpetrators. It may not even be one of them, but someone else altogether. 2) She could think she is being truthful but actually nothing happened, she has put 2 and 2 together and made 7. She sounds very unstable which could either be caused by abuse or have caused her to search for a reason and subconsciously create false memories. 3) She could be outright lying. I know pps who have been victims of CSA won't like this suggestion, but it happens more than you think. When it does happen, it is often by teens who are unstable and manipulative - which both her counsellor has noted and she has clearly acted manipulatively towards your husband and outright lied about your actions. Whatever it is, keep an open mind and support your husband the best you can. If she is going to lie about you, I recommend you step back. It must be such a difficult situation but it sounds like you have done everything right and done your best to support her.

I agree. it's the man who needs supporting in this situation.

For absolute fuck's sake.

Even if this young woman has BPD (or EUPD, as it's more commonly called by the MH teams where I live) that doesn't mean that what she is saying is false.There's a significant correlation between SA and B/EUPD diagnoses.

And I'm coming across an awful lot of clients whose diagnosis has been changed from B/EUPD to Complex PTSD, because of these links.

Exactly. Many in the MH/CSA/VAWG are clear that BPD diagnoses are overly given to women and girls who have experienced abuse and trauma.

DSD needs good quality trauma support.

I agree. it's the man who needs supporting in this situation.

For absolute fuck's sake.

He does need support in order to support his daughter. OP is best placed to give that support and needs to step back from her DSD as she has now become a target.

There has been some good insight and advice on this thread. Resilience set out a very clear approach that could be super helpful.

Getting angry and insulting people seems like a waste of time and is no help to OP or her stepdaughter.

@thedancingbear well he does? How else is he going to best support his DD? And the OP did her best with her DSD, was rebutted and has become a target herself so best to leave it to DSDs dad and professionals.
However, she can still support him in supporting his DSD, and in coping with it himself. It must be awful to hear your DD say she has been abused.
Nothing misogynistic about it. I'd be saying exactly the same if the sexes of the parent and stepparent were reversed.

[quote QuarantineQueen]@thedancingbear well he does? How else is he going to best support his DD? And the OP did her best with her DSD, was rebutted and has become a target herself so best to leave it to DSDs dad and professionals.
However, she can still support him in supporting his DSD, and in coping with it himself. It must be awful to hear your DD say she has been abused.
Nothing misogynistic about it. I'd be saying exactly the same if the sexes of the parent and stepparent were reversed.[/quote]
This isn't what you posted. Your 15.59 post is predicated on the idea that the daughter is probably not telling the truth. And centres the feelings of her father.

As countless others have noted on this thread, whatever happened to 'we believe you'?

@QuarantineQueen - “She could be outright lying… it happens more often that you think”.

How often? Can you back this up with figures or give me a link to the research you’ve got this from please ?

“When it does happen it’s often by teens who are unstable and manipulative” - again, where are you getting this from?

Idk. As I said upthread, having been in that situation I want to believe her and my first instinct is to believe her but too much doesn't add up.

I think she is lying to manipulate you. Whether she is lying about being abused at all or just about the perpetrator, who knows?

This insistence that all her family know except for her mum is odd. Does her mum have a partner? How is her relationship with him?

But tbh the more you post, the more I think its all bollocks and she is deeply disturbed. She clearly has no problem lying about things that you KNOW to be false so I'm inclined to think the rest is made up too.

[quote Princessandthepeas]**@QuarantineQueen - “She could be outright lying… it happens more often that you think”.

How often? Can you back this up with figures or give me a link to the research you’ve got this from please ?

“When it does happen it’s often by teens who are unstable and manipulative” - again, where are you getting this from?[/quote]
Qute. @QuarantineQueen, can you provide some stats, please, on how often allegations of sexual abuse are false?

Oh, hang on, I've done it for you. It's almost never: www.open.ac.uk/research/news/false-accusations-sexual-violence

You are helping no-one with your ill-informed apologist nonsense.

@thedancingbear - Thank you.
Some of the responses on here are really sickening to read.

@FatLarrysBand

It's nothing to do with whether she's 'behaving as she should'.

She couldn't remember the name of her abuser. Her sister, however, managed to Google him. Now, she either managed that because she did remember his name, or because she managed to put sufficient detail into a search engine to find him - and would have got the name at that point. So his name is now known, one way or the other. But she can't recall it. That simply doesn't make sense. That in tandem with all the other things OP has aid, makes me think she may be lying.

I'm afraid I reject the idea that if someone thinks they have been abused - they have been: or indeed that anyone accusing someone of sexual abuse must automatically be believed. And, happily, so does the Criminal Justice System.

i believe the same , its ludicrous i think in this instance to even give her accusations the time of day , if thats even what you can call them , it seems more like oh i will come out with this vague stuff and see how much it sets everyone off in a tangent , and its worked shes got a bit of attention it seems , personally its all so vague it would be a miracle if it were true .

personally its all so vague it would be a miracle if it were true .

Have you even read the thread? Many many of us only had or have a vague feeling, before the memories came back, if they ever did. It's an extremely common trauma response to suppress those memories

@HerRoyalRisesAgain

No ones saying its impossible she's lied. We are saying that the only way to help this clearly troubled young woman is to believe her and support her in finding a suitable therapist. Whatever happened to believing victims? Me too?

its all very well , but if she lying about these 2 men she cant even remember the name of , and she decides to go one step further and take it to the police , its possibly 2 innocent men having their lives ripped apart by the fabrications of a teenager without a shred of evidence , they will still have to be questioned by the police and all the rest of it . sorry but i dont think its fair and i dont think in this particular instance with the vague details shes coming out with she should automatically be believed , she does sound like she needs some kind of help though ,

@chaosrabbitland I'll refer you to @thedancingbear post on the stats of false accusations.
Oh, hang on, I've done it for you. It's almost never: www.open.ac.uk/research/news/false-accusations-sexual-violence

You are helping no-one with your ill-informed apologist nonsense.

@HerRoyalRisesAgain

personally its all so vague it would be a miracle if it were true .

Have you even read the thread? Many many of us only had or have a vague feeling, before the memories came back, if they ever did. It's an extremely common trauma response to suppress those memories

yes i have read the thread thank you , and it doesnt change my opinion of it all one bit. theres a lot not adding up, an awful lot really

yes i have read the thread thank you , and it doesnt change my opinion of it all one bit. theres a lot not adding up, an awful lot really
Ok so those of us with vague feelings and hazy memories that "don't add up" are we all manipulative liars too? Or just this particular young woman?

[quote HerRoyalRisesAgain]**@chaosrabbitland* I'll refer you to @thedancingbear* post on the stats of false accusations.
Oh, hang on, I've done it for you. It's almost never: www.open.ac.uk/research/news/false-accusations-sexual-violence

You are helping no-one with your ill-informed apologist nonsense.[/quote]
thing is im not the only one on this thread commenting who is saying they feel that what shes saying is not true , so theres no need to get in a twist everytime someone comments the same . just because im a woman does not mean i have to read something like the ops written and write , omg that sounds terrible , yes yes , shes telling the truth ,god forbid in this day and age we cannot disbelieve someone of our own sex , must be only horrible evil men that lie then

As I said, there's a lot of projection on this thread.
I have experience in this area and although I agree in general accusations of sexual violence are true (and those excellent stats are about all cases) once you add the specific features of this case (historic, vague feeling and no memory but able to accuse more than one specific man, clear emotional blackmail and manipulative behaviour, and known false accusations about the OP) it begins to sound far more like those few cases where it isn't true. I'm not saying it's definitely a false memory or a lie at all - and certainly counselling etc should progress on the assumption it's true because it might be - but given all the details it would be foolish for any professional to not have an open mind.
OP, however, just needs to support her DH whilst being wary of her own position.

No wonder men get away with as much as they do.

I feel awful, but I can’t shake the intuition that this isn’t quite true.

This is very common because a lot of women reporting historical abuse sound veyr hazy and unsure of themselves. They don't present clear facts with confidence. Try to bear in mind that abusers set up scenarios of doubt and grey areas so that victims are silenced by self doubt or others' disbelief.

It is likely that she is remembering something that felt wrong at the time or feels wrong in retrospect. It may or may not count legally as abuse but please trust that her confusion and worry are genuine.

@JustLyra

No wonder men get away with as much as they do.

Right? I am disgusted by some of the responses here

must be only horrible evil men that lie then

No one has said that. If you'd read the thread properly you'd see we are saying that the way to support this clearly traumatised young woman is to believe her and help her seek therapy, regardless of if its true or not. Thats not for anyone to judge, its for OPS DSD to work through with a professional. Coming on and calling her a liar will help no one.