What the hell do we do?! (Potential trigger warning)

[Ninhurt]

Dsd has just disclosed to me that she thinks she has been abused. BUT (and I few like a complete monster for saying this) it doesn’t really add up and I’m not sure what to do. I used to be so sure I’d instantly call the police but the details are extremely fuzzy.

For instance dsd said that she thinks a teacher from a hobby when she was younger ‘did something’. She doesn’t know what, and doesn’t remember anything happening. She also said she can’t remember the name of the teacher, then later on said that her older sister had googled him and that he had left the country. She then again said she didn’t know his name (then how did her sister google him?)

She has also named a teacher at her primary school that she said she also thinks ‘did something’. But again, she can’t remember anything that may have happened? Just that she ‘has a feeling’. And she said he hugged her once in the staff room?

Dsd is 19. DH is absolutely distraught and wanted to phone 111 for advice but dsd says she doesn’t want to because she can’t actually remember anything happening. She is absolutely adamant that we can’t tell her mum, but we can tell her aunties and Nan?

I’m not an evil stepmom, we actually have a really good relationship, and I feel awful, but I can’t shake the intuition that this isn’t quite true. Again, I don’t want to think this, but it’s almost like she’s enjoying ‘punishing’ her dads side of the family with this.

DH says we have to leave it (but he and his side of the family are in a complete state). I think we should call the non emergency police number for some sort of advice as you never know. And if it (whatever ‘it’ is) is true then this teacher is now a deputy head at a primary school?

DH and dsd are both very against this idea. I feel extremely unsettled and am worried about dsd wondering what else may be wrong (as I don’t think she’d make something like this up flippantly).

Maybe the best course of action for the moment would be to get in touch with a help line or support group for sexual assault survivors and their families.

This is such a sensitive issue and it's very apparent you all care very much for DSD and don't want to do any inadvertent damage so a talk with someone who deals with this on a professional level could help you avoid some pit falls along the way, guide you towards what could help and let you know some of the things you might expect from her in the next wee while.

Did you or DH ever speak to her old counsellor after she left the service? I ask because I'm wondering who said she was manipulative, the therapist or your DSD. If the latter were you able to find out if that was true or was it maybe something that your DSD just felt but wasn't actually the case?

Our minds work in strange ways don't they. Sounds as though she needs therapeutic input to help her work out what happened. The police wouldn't just act on a feeling something happened they would need some sort of account even however hazy that may be.

A lot of people are talking about repressed memories, and thought it would be pretty important to say that this is a major reason for not pushing her to remember anything. Whilst very difficult to it would be better if you could try not to show agreement or disbeleif at anything while she works through these thoughts.It's very easy when someone feels they are dealings with repressed memories for others responses to help them forge "false memories" either by trying to force whats in their heads to make sense, or even by building a narritive around their suspicions which would then seem very real to them even though it's never happened. 100% agree with everyone else therapy is the best place for her to explore these worries and memories, but it does sound like you are doing a really good job at trying to remain objective in the face of some incredibly difficult conversations.

I wouldn't listen to a word she says about sexual abuse in the past that she is hazy about or any of it. It's irrelevant for now. She is clearly having some sort of mental health crisis and is talking bollocks about the stuff you know to NOT be true so it's likely the abuse bit is also bollocks.

She sounds like she loves attention and drama but physically attacking people at the age of nineteen puts this in a whole different class of behaviour.

Don't pick bits out to deal with. It's not your job or place to do so. Look at all of her behaviour as a piece and deal with that. Assuming she is right about past abuse when she is behaving so irrationally in every other respect would be inappropriate, expecially when she is not giving dates times places and detail. I would assume for some reason she is trying to get attention but is 'well' enough to try an manipulate where the attention comes from.

There are sirens going off here for BPD, red blaring ones. The threats to kill herself and repeated accusations that don't seem right and don't add up, the manipulation of "you have to do x or YOU DON'T LOVE ME," it's all VERY BPD. Do some reading. See if it adds up better after you do.

@WombOfOnesOwn

There are sirens going off here for BPD, red blaring ones. The threats to kill herself and repeated accusations that don't seem right and don't add up, the manipulation of "you have to do x or YOU DON'T LOVE ME," it's all VERY BPD. Do some reading. See if it adds up better after you do.

I'm glad somebody else spotted that too. It's almost textbook isn't it.

@TheSquashyHatOfMrGnosspelius

I wouldn't listen to a word she says about sexual abuse in the past that she is hazy about or any of it. It's irrelevant for now. She is clearly having some sort of mental health crisis and is talking bollocks about the stuff you know to NOT be true so it's likely the abuse bit is also bollocks.

She sounds like she loves attention and drama but physically attacking people at the age of nineteen puts this in a whole different class of behaviour.

Don't pick bits out to deal with. It's not your job or place to do so. Look at all of her behaviour as a piece and deal with that. Assuming she is right about past abuse when she is behaving so irrationally in every other respect would be inappropriate, expecially when she is not giving dates times places and detail. I would assume for some reason she is trying to get attention but is 'well' enough to try an manipulate where the attention comes from.

this , im doubting very much shes been abused being as she cant remember barely a thing that happened . theres no way i would be reporting this stuff to the police

Not telling her mother - perhaps she was abused by a relative and doesn't want to face the fallout - a relative of her mother? The teacher story could be just distracting from the facts.

I think she could have repressed the abuse (? Someone she knows) hence the unclear memory.

I agree with @WombOfOnesOwn and @Nosuchthingas - her surrounding behaviour is shouting borderline personality disorder. That doesn't at all mean she's not telling the truth on abuse in some form (indeed, from my limited knowledge there's big correlation between BPD and childhood abuse) - but the level of manipulation and lying here like she's really in crisis. Sounds like she needs urgent support from an experienced professional who can look at both angles.

OP I have a daughter who was attacked in school 5 years ago. We have never got the full details. She is now 18. It has had a massive effect on her mental health, educational obtainment and our family life. She has also self harmed like your DSD. She has also requested a sex change which one clinician suggested was for protection. She has had counsellors and speech therapists (she stopped talking) and we are no further in discovering what happened to her. She refuses to talk to the police although I have complained to the school. They did nothing but deny it. Sometimes she starts to talk about it and other times she says nothing happened. This could be seen as manipulative. What I have always tried to do is believe her. I want to to be able to tell me when she is ready. If nothing happened to your DSD she is still unwell to believe something did. Mental health services are stretched but you must find someone that 'gets' her or she won't recover. We have a huge amount of childhood mental illness and little help and support out there. I would also suggest there is a lot of shame attached to MH illness with extended family perhaps not understanding? The urgent thing her is some professional help. Do not leave it.

Also remember she is 19 and can decide how her sensitive personal data is handled and who is told I think - unless she were revealing it to a doctor who has a professional duty to disclose it to police (do doctors have that duty?) She has said her granny and aunt can be told but not her parents I think. I would first of all leave it up to her father to decide what to do. There might be others who was hurt by I think it was 2 people she thinks abused her (if she has remembered correctly) or she may be making it up I suppose or confused or been reading about recovered memories or something - we just don't know. She certainly needs help and support ideally from her father and if you can afford it (assuming the NHS cannot help which it never seems able to) then a professional.

I would suggest that she needs an urgent MH assessment at a hospital, but I know in the UK that’s virtually impossible unless she is in danger of hurting herself or others. While there are alarm bells for BPD - really, really loud ones… (especially the psychologist telling her that she is manipulative, then her refusing to work with her again), the flip side is that ASD girls are very much vulnerable targets for predators. Of course if it’s true and you accuse her of attention-seeking behaviour, then you will destroy this man’s career and family - possibly even have him incarcerated. If he’s guilty, he needs to be charged as other vulnerable kids need to be protected. You are in a horrible position, OP. Perhaps a discrete phone-call to her old counsellor advising her of the current situation, stating that you are not looking for personal information about your DSD, but advice about whether you should be reporting this to the police or taking her to the centre or even the hospital.
I have so much empathy for you, being scapegoated like this. Sorry to say this, but symptomatic of BPD, too. I don’t have ASD or BPD, but I do know that the mind can twist things around.
I was sexually assaulted at 14. The police officer who was called to the hospital really encouraged me to press charges, but because I was too traumatized and my home life was already extremely dysfunctional, I knew it wouldn’t have been emotionally safe for me to go through that process. (I would not have been believed, and other family members were involved, etc…) To make the situation more bearable, I twisted the story around so that I genuinely believed that the policeman was the person who had assaulted me, instead of trying to help me. (They were perfectly gentle and kind, not aggressive about it at all.) It was only when I was about 45 that I had flashbacks of what really happened and memories of that evening. (I have had a lot of counselling since, and it’s not uncommon I believe.)

You reporting this at this stage isn't going to protect anyone.

There isn't enough evidence to even stop him having contact with kids/ be suspended from work let alone any criminal proceedings.

You can best protect others by focussing ATM on prioritising DSD's MH. She is traumatised and needs professional support. Try to fight against your (very common) internal bias to disbelieve her. Give her space to further discuss it/ disclose more. Keep written notes of what she does remember. Get her a counselor. After 6+ months revisit a discussion with her about sharing her information. But always reassure her that you won't share without her consent.

Without forensic evidence, even if the worst has happened, he won't get convicted.

Most child sex abusers never are.

She sounds like a narcissistic lier.

Not read the full thread so apologies if this has already been discussed

@Mulhollandmagoo do you think that this is one of those threads and topics where it would be prudent to RTFT before commenting?

I really feel for you - I have come to realise parenting teens are the hardest age. I went on a parenting course and there are a lot of changes in their brains and their decision making moves to the impulse part of their brain while their real/final decision making part develops itself. You have to throw out the window what you previously thought about her because puberty changes children both mentally and physically - although I am told they come back once their changes are done.
Considering her reaction - my advice to you would be to find yourself a clinical physcologist who specialises in family therapy - not for your dsd - infact I really don't think you should tell her you are seeing one - its for you and your hubby. The therapist will listen to what you tell her about your daughter's behaviour - help analysis what is going on and give you the right parenting advice / wording on how to handle her. Prepare yourself with examples of her behaviour and ask what do you do when she does or says X. I use this extensively with my teen who when I am finding her tricky. Its worked wonders for our family and I hope it can help you too. You seem very lovely and caring and committed - my concern is if you try your best it still may come back at you because your DSD is not thinking rationally at the moment. I would get a professional to guide you to hopefully get on the right path as quickly as you can.

Another vote for BPD here. I also think this 19 year old is narcissistic, destructive and manipulative. I would go very gently and slowly with everything here. I would be very wary of the new boyfriend and his mother

DSD is in crisis and in need of support for her mental health at the moment.

She is rewriting history, you know she is because she has lied about you. She may well be lying about any names she gives while in crisis. Others have suggested it could be closer to home.

Her counsellor called her manipulative. Have you found her to be so? She is in need of help, for sure, but tread warily.

She sounds like she’s spinning out of control here. Whether the abuse happened or not she’s obviously extremely distressed. In her mind she may “feel” like you told her to get out etc as in she felt unwanted and it translated into “they may as well have said get out” iyswim. Does sound a lot like BPD.

I’d go with stepping back and your DH just saying “love you so very much door is always open”. You are doing the right thing trying to de-escalage. What people say/what happened is mediated and filtered through our own mental filters so even if you didn’t do anything her filter may be telling her no-one wants her/believes her etc. I’m so sorry this seems pretty crushing for all of you to go through.

I don’t like to say this but probably best to watch out for some self harm attempts and even if your DH can’t do that directly maybe have a word with people around her about what to look out for.

Reading your posts it sounds like you are talking about a 9 year old rather than a 19 year old.

I wouldn't encourage her to report anything at this stage- and certainly wouldn't report for her or tell anyone else- that's up to her.

You can't just report because she has a 'feeling' and potentially ruin another person's life based on that. You need facts.

Sounds like she needs help to get herself sorted first.

What an awful situation. She needs urgent mental health support- she has already physically lashed out at the OP and if she has a history of self harm is at risk of that too.
I can understand the confusion and hesitancy about telling extended family members about this, when it is very unformed and still very raw for the DSD- and really needs to be explored with a trained professional first. I agree with PP who said about not prodding for details as these can be invented by the brain to fit the facts- not deliberate lying but the brain trying to come up with a logical explanation for the vaguer memory of something happening, filling out the gaps as it doesn’t like the incompleteness.
The urgency that the DSD is expressing in wanting this, this and this to happen- and meltdown when it doesn’t-, does sound like BPD to me (as someone with BPD). I really think the DSD mother needs to know that her daughter is in the middle of a mental health crisis, the OP and her husband don’t need to mention what the DSD has told them, just that she is in crisis.
Also- I have questions about the role of the sister who has googled one of these people. Where is she? What does she remember? There is something strange about googling and then forgetting. Not questioning the DSD’s account, but she sounds so vulnerable and there’s something odd about the involvement of another person in her remembering and then pointedly being unable to access their findings again, it is strange. But really- the DSD safety needs to Be prioritised and then she needs really qualified help to explore what happened.

@WombOfOnesOwn

There are sirens going off here for BPD, red blaring ones. The threats to kill herself and repeated accusations that don't seem right and don't add up, the manipulation of "you have to do x or YOU DON'T LOVE ME," it's all VERY BPD. Do some reading. See if it adds up better after you do.

Even if this young woman has BPD (or EUPD, as it's more commonly called by the MH teams where I live) that doesn't mean that what she is saying is false.There's a significant correlation between SA and B/EUPD diagnoses.

And I'm coming across an awful lot of clients whose diagnosis has been changed from B/EUPD to Complex PTSD, because of these links.

Agree with FreekStar2 She's 19. An adult, You don't have to do anything, it's not your place to and you certainly don't have to accept abuse. In the state she's in she might have had a dream about the teachers abusing her. Her perception of reality is not correct in any other respect.

this , im doubting very much shes been abused being as she cant remember barely a thing that happened . theres no way i would be reporting this stuff to the police

Not being able to remember much about what happened is as much evidence of trauma as of anything else. Trauma does that to people, lack of recollection doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Refusal of others to take an SA disclosure seriously can compound the psychological impact of the event, and shouldn't be done lightly.

At the moment, this is her truth, and it should be treated as such. This is a very troubled and vulnerable young woman imo.