Why is UK so child unfriendly?

[bezabez]

Hi! I am foreign person living in the UK for the past 15 years.

I have noticed that the attitudes towards children are really strange in this country. Generally kids aren't accepted to be kids. They are expected to be quiet (ish) if out and about eg in a restaurant or a cafe, women don't breastfeed often in public (UK has the lowest rate of breastfeeding in the world) and they are expected 'to do as you're told' - that's a weird expression in itself tbh and to behave and never show a wild side. If on a train or other public spaces people tend not to engage with them even with babies (where I'm from there would be talking and smiling and general admirations) or tthey make faces, huffing and puffing etc if the children 'misbehave'.

Also parents complain A LOT about having children, sometimes as a form of a banter as these are socially acceptable jokes. Especially during the holidays.

On top of that there aren't many affordable childcare options or things like holiday camps and clubs (I know they exist in bigger cities sometimes but it isn't the same).

Overall it's no place for young people!

Does it come from the Victorian 'kids are to be seen not heard' thing?

Again where I'm from kids are celebrated as the future here they are mostly treated as inconvenience.

My child is 3 and if he makes a noise with even the slightest tone of upset/worry/irritation, I get multiple nasty looks shot at me. No matter where I go. I’m sorry that I don’t expect my 3 year old to sometimes get sad, or that I allow him to express his feelings (if we’re in a restaurant and he starts screaming, I take him out of the restaurant and calm him down outside so as to not disturb other diners, for example). I don’t expect him to sit still when he’s a ball of energy. I don’t even apologise for him anymore unless he’s visibly upsetting other people or being so loud I have to remove him from a certain establishment

I agree with you 100%. I honestly think the average Brit thinks there is nothing wrong with how they are, because they have no clue how other cultures are. I am lucky that I live in a very multicultural environment, because if it was not for all the lovely friendly foreigners, my beautiful sociable daughter would have 0 friends. What I have learnt though, Brits don't treat their own children any better. You also must remember a lot of people that have children don't actually like them, they just have them for what they can provide them ie house and benefits.

@Daisz

I agree with you 100%. I honestly think the average Brit thinks there is nothing wrong with how they are, because they have no clue how other cultures are. I am lucky that I live in a very multicultural environment, because if it was not for all the lovely friendly foreigners, my beautiful sociable daughter would have 0 friends. What I have learnt though, Brits don't treat their own children any better. You also must remember a lot of people that have children don't actually like them, they just have them for what they can provide them ie house and benefits.

You ok hun?

@karmakameleon

Can't help but notice you've included "large number of adults in Camden" in your list of "antisocial behaviour".

All because it happened to intimidate your child.

Kind of proving the point that parents have unreasonable expectations for the whole world to be kid-friendly.

This attitude is the reason we Londoners aren't fond of tourists. Maybe try another city next time.

I honestly think the average Brit thinks there is nothing wrong with how they are, because they have no clue how other cultures are.

Or because there is nothing wrong with how they are. How many "average brits" do you know and scrutinise?

@Daisz

I agree with you 100%. I honestly think the average Brit thinks there is nothing wrong with how they are, because they have no clue how other cultures are. I am lucky that I live in a very multicultural environment, because if it was not for all the lovely friendly foreigners, my beautiful sociable daughter would have 0 friends. What I have learnt though, Brits don't treat their own children any better. You also must remember a lot of people that have children don't actually like them, they just have them for what they can provide them ie house and benefits.

What the fuck is this?? I don't live in a multicultural environment but my kids can play out in the street, we are very close to our neighbours, there are events on for children constantly, the children get talked to and even given money by people when they are out in our village! They can attend any restaurant here, and there is lots of help and care if you need it. Your post is an offensive joke

[quote rainbowmash]@karmakameleon

Can't help but notice you've included "large number of adults in Camden" in your list of "antisocial behaviour".

All because it happened to intimidate your child.

Kind of proving the point that parents have unreasonable expectations for the whole world to be kid-friendly.

This attitude is the reason we Londoners aren't fond of tourists. Maybe try another city next time.[/quote]
I must admit that made me laugh as did cyclists ringing their bells pass the smelling salts 😂
Honestly this thread is bonkers !

I must admit that made me laugh as did cyclists ringing their bells

The cyclists were expecting everyone to jump out of their way. That was the point.

@SoupDragon

I must admit that made me laugh as did cyclists ringing their bells

The cyclists were expecting everyone to jump out of their way. That was the point.

Well it would be a bit daft not to!

A canal path is used by walkers and cyclists- why wouldnt you ring your bell to let people know there is a cyclist behind them?
Everyone safe
Has the world gone mad?

[quote rainbowmash]@karmakameleon

Can't help but notice you've included "large number of adults in Camden" in your list of "antisocial behaviour".

All because it happened to intimidate your child.

Kind of proving the point that parents have unreasonable expectations for the whole world to be kid-friendly.

This attitude is the reason we Londoners aren't fond of tourists. Maybe try another city next time.[/quote]
DC1 finds busy places and large, noisy crowds of adults intimidating, just like lots of adults on here find the presence of large numbers of children irritating. Obviously we avoid that sort of place, but the onus is on us to do so. Reading back, I know it’s not clear but I’m contrasting with the large number of adults on this thread who expect kids not to be around just because they don’t like them.

A canal path is used by walkers and cyclists- why wouldnt you ring your bell to let people know there is a cyclist behind them?

If the cyclists were behind, I’d have understood but they were coming in the opposite direction to us. They literally wanted pedestrians to clear the path so they could maintain their speed but on a busy shared path, that’s simply not possible.

@ofwarren nope an offensive joke would be other parents dragging their child away because your two year old wants to play with your child. Or getting offended when a toddler accidentally touches your bag. That is offensive to me, stating actual facts that are true most definitely is not offensive. Most Brits not all but Most Brits are very "Prissy" when it comes to children even very young toddler/baby age ones and that is just factual I am afraid, when compared to other nationalities.

@karmakameleon This exactly this. People seem to have a higher level of tolerance for dogs more so than for actual very young children. I have nothing personally against dogs, but when a society places a higher importance on dogs than for our future adults, I say we have a problem.

[quote Daisz]@ofwarren nope an offensive joke would be other parents dragging their child away because your two year old wants to play with your child. Or getting offended when a toddler accidentally touches your bag. That is offensive to me, stating actual facts that are true most definitely is not offensive. Most Brits not all but Most Brits are very "Prissy" when it comes to children even very young toddler/baby age ones and that is just factual I am afraid, when compared to other nationalities.[/quote]
What does ‘prissy’ mean, in this context? What you are saying is literally your opinion - it is not a fact. There have been many, many examples of Britain and British people being wonderful and child friendly here.

A canal path is used by walkers and cyclists- why wouldnt you ring your bell to let people know there is a cyclist behind them?

🤦🏻‍♀️

It was the expecting pedestrians to jump out of the way. Rather than waiting for them to move. That's why the poster said "expected everyone to jump out of their way" and not just "ringing their bells".

Expecting someone to jump out of the way is arrogant and obnoxious.

They could just slow down and say excuse me

TempleofZoom

A canal path is used by walkers and cyclists- why wouldnt you ring your bell to let people know there is a cyclist behind them?

I can only imagine how much cyclists will hate the new highway code hierarchy

[quote Daisz]@ofwarren nope an offensive joke would be other parents dragging their child away because your two year old wants to play with your child. Or getting offended when a toddler accidentally touches your bag. That is offensive to me, stating actual facts that are true most definitely is not offensive. Most Brits not all but Most Brits are very "Prissy" when it comes to children even very young toddler/baby age ones and that is just factual I am afraid, when compared to other nationalities.[/quote]
Factual in your opinion?
Your experience is not representative of Britain as a whole. What you are describing does not happen where I live and I have lived in about 4 different areas in the UK.

They could just slow down and say excuse me

Yes, I much prefer cyclists to say excuse me but they rarely do. Bell ringing always startles me, and then I freeze, so am slower to get out of the way.

But it’s all a distraction really. Today I saw dangerous behaviour, littering, drunkenness, swearing and inappropriate conversation, all from adults. The police presumably were there because there is a high risk of criminal behaviour. All of this is perfectly normal on a bank holiday weekend but not things I generally see children doing.

The only people in my examples above who weren’t doing anything wrong, were the man at brunch and the people at Camden. I included them, not because they were particularly annoying but because their behaviour was the closest I saw today to the behaviour that people are complaining about from children.

@karmakameleon

They could just slow down and say excuse me

Yes, I much prefer cyclists to say excuse me but they rarely do. Bell ringing always startles me, and then I freeze, so am slower to get out of the way.

But it’s all a distraction really. Today I saw dangerous behaviour, littering, drunkenness, swearing and inappropriate conversation, all from adults. The police presumably were there because there is a high risk of criminal behaviour. All of this is perfectly normal on a bank holiday weekend but not things I generally see children doing.

The only people in my examples above who weren’t doing anything wrong, were the man at brunch and the people at Camden. I included them, not because they were particularly annoying but because their behaviour was the closest I saw today to the behaviour that people are complaining about from children.

Do you really think they don't do these things in other countries? I've been wanked at in the Netherlands, nearly run over by drivers in France and robbed in the street in Spain. This isn't a British problem, it's an arsehole/criminal problem.

@ofwarren

Of course I know that other countries have a problem with adult anti-social behaviour. It’s everywhere. But here there in the UK is a definite contrast between what is acceptable from adults and what is acceptable from children. The least offensive behaviour I described above from adults, is the most offensive behaviour people have complained about from children and yet it’s children that shouldn’t be allowed out in case they disturb your evening/ ruin your day.

Some MN discussions left me with wide eyes - for example, toddler who took the cookie without permission is on the criminal path and his mother is no good parent. And it's funny how many British parents see Pepa Pig as spoiled brat. FGS! My kid learned manners from that cartoon. 😁 And others who ban totally reasonable and moderate cartoons because children will become too excited and loud after waching them. Kid's happy, joyfull moments are too inconvenient. But your biggest sin is school sistem that starts at age of 4. Four! Yes, good children in UK are supposed to be like mini adults.

Yes, one more - example from documentary about behavior problems. School. Teachers are complaining that "Charley" is yet again agressive. He took a toy monkey and pretended it will bite his classmate. Poor "Charley" - where did "kids will be kids" go? Rough and tumble play between sibilings also seems to be discouraged. And not letting school children go to toilet during class, taking recess away as punishment and obsession with school unforms and pupil's hairstyles must be among most child unfriendly things I have ever heard.

I live in uk by and most people where I am will interact with babies and young children , it’s getting better but lots of restaurants aren’t child friendly, but I hate to see kids running wild and misbehaving

If you hate the place so much, off you pop.