To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday PART DEUX

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

First thread

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4332702-to-not-want-an-awake-child-around-at-11pm-when-i-m-on-holiday

I cringed when I read your post about the two of them appearing for a pamper night at 930pm. That was just plain rude - and so much worse than the TV and Dobble nonsense - who would want someone else’s 8yo painting their face and feet?! I have no idea why your friend thought that was remotely acceptable, let alone better.

And the 8yo went up to bed at 11.20pm? It’s just nuts.

The fact that the other mum is repeatedly suggesting you go on holiday again shows total lack of awareness.

Hmm.. maybe friend didn't need to hear some gentle parenting tips like others have suggested, just to see op having a better time could be the lightbulb moment to stop pandering to Alyssa. Tonight will be the defining moment. Can't wait

This thread brought back memories of a 'holiday' I had with a friend's family many years ago. Her DS and my DD were very close in age - about 6 I think. She also did 'gentle parenting'. In other words her kid ruled the roost.

His behaviour and his parent's refusal to impose any kind of discipline and structure on him ruined the holiday. We tried eating out once and once only, He stood on the middle of the table while we were eating because he didn't like his meal. They left him there and calmly carried on eating. the waitress came over to the table in the end to ask for him to be taken down before he fell down.

He also had no bed time - he stayed up until he fell asleep and was carried to bed. As a result he was tired and grumpy all of the time. His parents said there was no pint taking him to bed awake as he would not stay in bed. I did suggest one of them stay with him to settle him but they looked at me as if I were mad. He grabbed toys from my DD and refused to share. The final straw for me was when he deliberately hit her in the face with a toy tractor and refused to say sorry.

We had gone to Spain in their big people carrier. I was so fed up of being with this spoilt prince 24/7 that we decided to hire our own car for the final four days of the holiday so we could have our own space. As we were trapped for the duration of the holiday I really didn't want to fall out with my friend then and there, but safe to say it was the one and only time we went away with them.

Their DS is now in his early 20s. He is an arrogant, lazy, self centred bully who treats his parents like a cashpoint.

Your boyfriend is very lucky to have you op, you are fabulous and fun, and I am glad this endurance is coming to an end!

Is there any chance that you could have a quiet word to Alyssa, girl to girl and tell her to stay in her room tonight? There could be a huge surprise (i.e. you won't kill her) tomorrow if she does??
She can stay awake if she wants but unless a limb is hanging off her, she is to stay in her room. She can read a book, do some colouring, whatever but she MUST stay in her room tonight.

Well OP, your friend had so many nights to sort out Alyssa but she chose not to.
I don’t believe tonight Alyssa will go to bed earlier or your friend will get her parenting shit together out of a sudden.

She dangled the promise of an adult chat for six nights keeping you hopeful.
I’d cop out from tonight’s possibility of an adult night and say that if she wants to catch up for an adult chat just let you know and leave the ball in her court.

@Emelene

Argh your friend sounds very insensitive OP and her parenting not compatible with having any adult time!

I’ve enjoyed reading your thread though, you write very well.

The comments on gentle parenting have been a breath of fresh air. I have a toddler. I do believe in some of the aspects of “gentle” parenting as I understand them like trying not to act out of anger and speaking about emotions. But my toddler has recently been kicked, had dirt thrown in her face and been screamed at by three other children on different occasions. On each, I have watched their parents (my friends!) speak to the children “gently” and have thought how inadequate it has been. There has been no firmness, no consequence and no apology to my child. I was told by my mum that other people think I’m too harsh to my toddler. But I don’t think a firm no/ telling off for bad behaviour and making her apologise is harsh. Anyway I digress.

I really hope you can enjoy the last bit of your holiday.

I've also found this a breath of fresh air. Bloody gentle parenting makes for awful kids and also unhappy children. I don't see any calm or content gentle parented kids They are tired, hungry, angry, agitated and overwhelmed.

I'm also sick of feeling like a hard nasty mummy around these parents who smile a sympathetic smile at me as I discipline my children. I recently learned that the word disco live comes from the Greek 'to train'. Bloody right, that's my job to train my kids into not being total twats.

I like these threads very much. There are holidays set up specifically for single parents, a friend went on this one to Ibiza (yoga holiday). From the blurb it looks a bit hippy but she said she had a good time.

I wouldn’t exactly call her a shit friend?

I think the one slagging off an 8 year old to a group of strangers is the shit friend. You don’t sound very nice to be around, shouting at others kids? If you ever spoke to my child in any such way I’d be speaking to you in the exact same manner.

I’ll probably get jumped on for going against the majority here as your clearly very popular bitching about your “friend” and her child. However, it would be very very annoying to be in your situation I wouldn’t like it either but I wouldn’t of stopped this low.

*stooped

So sorry your holiday has been 'different' to the one you had imagined but I have loved this thread. FWIW I would plan my own last night hurrah with bath, wine, chocs, Netflix etc starting from when yours are settled and let them get on with it. If asked make it clear that previous evening plans have been derailed so you are doing your own thing. She hasn't really bothered about your feelings up to now.

the only child of two high powered politicians

Please say it was the Goves 😂

Good luck tonight OP. Sounds like your friend is starting to see the problem at least.

I recently learned that the word disco live comes from the Greek 'to train'.

I suspect autocorrect has interfered here but really want to know what it was meant to be!!

This is definitely a thing, the bringing your kid to everything and it is a wider symptom of being 'besties' with your kids and is simply an extension of that.
It is not parenting or a parenting relationship in any real sense of the word. The lines are totally blurred between adult and child, and the child has grown up expecting and feeling entitled to full adult time/leisure and participation.

My SIL(59) and BIL (61) are taking this to a whole new level now having had years of this kind of parenting - hen nights and spa weekends with kids turning up en masse. They now get seriously drunk with their kids at festivals, teen parties and all the rest, having invited themselves into their teen's lives they encroach on any every event and party that they have, and drag their kids to all their stuff too.

It is so profoundly weird to be around them as they talk about their Saturday night drunken nights, and the rest of us tend to gaze at them and wonder whether they actually believe they are 19 again or if this is the epitome of a mid life crisis. SIL tells me 'oh we are very close as a family, we do everything together' okay - they well are 28, 23 and 19 do they want you strapped on to their nights out?
Now might be a good moment to break free from mothers nipple I so want to say.

Discipline.

I have a friend who is like this with her adult daughter (22). Daughter moved back to our area from London and bought a house but now totally rules her mother’s time.

Mother is a friend of mine, we used to do a lot together (nights out, weekends away) and I have to admit, she did drive me crazy talking about her daughter all the times (great detail, everything she had eaten/bought/said), however since the daughter moved back to the area, she has to run all the plans past her to ‘make sure she doesn’t need me for anything.’

Funnily enough, the daughter has ‘needed’ her whenever we’ve planned a weekend away. Then the ‘need’ has evaporated and my friend has ended up spending the weekend doing nothing.

The last straw was when we planned a shopping and cocktails day in Bath. The friend asked could the daughter come. There were four of us going, the other two said yes - I had to make approving noises.

In the event, friend texted all of us the night before the planned outing with something like ‘girls, I’m sorry but I’m going to go for cocktails and shopping with daughter, just the two of us. Hope you don’t mind me calling it off, I feel guilty that I don’t spend enough time with her.’

The REALLY annoying thing was that we had train tickets and afternoon tea booked. I had done all of the thinking, booking etc. I had therefore basically planned their bloody day out for them and of course we had already paid for our train tickets.

The other three all said ‘it’s fine, have a nice time.’ I personally thought it was really appalling. The daughter is now pregnant. I don’t think we will ever be able to see the mother again!

It doesn’t end when they grow up. Run for the hills, leave them to it.

Ed Balls and Yvette Cooper

Well OP, you need a medal! Your parenting style is more like mine. I have a friend who takes the more gentle approach and whenever she has to leave somewhere with her DD it takes forever! Last time she came to my house she spent 40 minutes negotiating with her to get in the car to go home. My friend is lovely and the sweetest person but when your child's actions are hindering other people you need to nip it in the bud.

The hen do thing reminds me of a 'first warning' I got on a gentle parenting FB group actually! Someone said they didn't want to leave their 3 month old at home to go for a meal part of a hen do - fair enough. But people were saying 'take her along! I couldn't think of a better guest at a hen do' I commented saying do not take the baby you will piss everyone off and as much as you love your child no one wants a baby at an adult meal it would be very rude. And I got a PM saying I was on my first warning 😂😂

OP I am loving your thread. Ignore the mardy comments. Hope you can salvage the last night of your holiday.

@CarrieBlue

the only child of two high powered politicians

Please say it was the Goves 😂

Who I thought too but Mrs Gove isn't a politician

God this thread is so long I am sure its been said but...

This is so unfair on your 9 year old. How come Alyssa get's to stay up and have fun with the adults and she has to go to bed? I'm not saying you should get her up or anything (I also wouldn't want the kids up) I would just feel guilty AF if I was you.

@stepupandbecounted

Your boyfriend is very lucky to have you op, you are fabulous and fun, and I am glad this endurance is coming to an end!

Aw what a nice thing to say thank you!

Nothing to add, just that I haven’t enjoyed a thread so much in a long time !! Not making light of your horrendous experience OP, but you’ve got a great sense of humour (luckily) and you write really well. Some of the comments you’ve had in response have had me snorting wine out of my nose !! The ‘screaming surfboard’ conjured up a hilarious mental picture. Thank you and I hope your last night goes well - awaiting the update with baited breath !!