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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want an awake child around at 11pm when I'm on holiday PART DEUX

999 replies

FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 28/08/2021 00:41

First thread

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4332702-to-not-want-an-awake-child-around-at-11pm-when-i-m-on-holiday

OP posts:
Franklyfrost · 29/08/2021 09:09

So sad. Not everyone is able to be ‘normal’. It sounds like the daughter has some issues and the mum is struggling to deal with them. A holiday together with a friend might have been a chance to have a chat about how to cope better. But op thinks everyone who isn’t behaving just needs to pull their socks up and get on with it. The thing is not everyone can.

Tantrums and difficult bedtimes aren’t always a sign of bad parenting, especially in an older child. Being strict can often exasperate the problem if there’s an underlying issue. And often these underlying issues physically exist: it’s not being spoilt, it’s having a neurological structure which makes some activities harder, especially when your parent isn’t getting the help they need.

Woeismethischristmas · 29/08/2021 09:10

I feel for you OP and I’ve kept up with both your threads. Hopefully you’ll get an apologetic message from your friend although that is probably the friendship done anyway. However I’m really interested in where you stayed as it sounds fab any chance you could pm me.

HailAdrian · 29/08/2021 09:10

Jesus fucking christ, so much arse kissing on this thread. Imagine if OP's friend had taken the kids to the pub and got pissed. That would have been fun for you lot wouldn't it? 😂

Odisia · 29/08/2021 09:10

I think it's all quite sad really. No winners here and such a shame it all went so wrong. I hope that the friendship can be salvaged.

decoratedstandardlamp · 29/08/2021 09:12

@TriCeraBottom

To clarify i don’t think you did anything wrong all week re bedtimes and think your friend was really weak letting A come down and play and do “pamper for the mummies” she should have been told to stay upstairs with a quiet activity if she couldn’t sleep.
Especially as someone pointed out she had a tummy bug brewing apparently
Rogue1001 · 29/08/2021 09:15

Been following since the first thread. I'm so sorry you didn't even get one full good evening.

Billybagpuss · 29/08/2021 09:16

@SarahBennettAdvice

Please don’t leave before your friend is ready to go. They need to be first to go, for gods sake think about Alyssa’s feelings for once.
Or at least leave a note saying, ‘left first, I win’
Woeismethischristmas · 29/08/2021 09:18

@Franklyfrost

So sad. Not everyone is able to be ‘normal’. It sounds like the daughter has some issues and the mum is struggling to deal with them. A holiday together with a friend might have been a chance to have a chat about how to cope better. But op thinks everyone who isn’t behaving just needs to pull their socks up and get on with it. The thing is not everyone can.

Tantrums and difficult bedtimes aren’t always a sign of bad parenting, especially in an older child. Being strict can often exasperate the problem if there’s an underlying issue. And often these underlying issues physically exist: it’s not being spoilt, it’s having a neurological structure which makes some activities harder, especially when your parent isn’t getting the help they need.

I think constantly pandering to children sets them up to fail. Once they get outside their family circle and the cocooning world of primary school who is going to listen to someone who screams it’s not fair to get their own way. Consistent rules are incredibly important for children whether NT or not..
TimeIhadaNameChange · 29/08/2021 09:19

It's the younger sibling I feel horrendously sorry for. You can escape after a week. They can't leave for at least 11 years, and will either be in Alyssa's shadow all their life or lose their family. Either way, poor, poor them.

My sister's an Alyssa. Wasn't like this as a child, it developed after family trauma when she was a teen. She rules the family.

She has to be first to go places / do things (even at 50!). I don't tell Mum things just so that for once in my life I get to do something first. All interests I have which she knows about she tries to be better than me at. Woe betide if I did that to her!

The worst was last year. Finally able to take my 5 month old to meet family and friends between lockdown. The whole week was about her. The fact that I was in tears every day was irrelevant, the only thing that mattered was making sure she was happy. Never have I felt so unloved and in ny place as I did then.

DifferentHair · 29/08/2021 09:23

Another one struggling to understand how a cheer squad formed.

Imagine the opposite 'I've gone on holiday with a friend and her children. She's been drinking excessively by herself every night. She disappeared last night and I discovered later she was out drinking with some people we just met while her poor children fell asleep in a pub. She's since come home and I can hear her stomping around drunk, knocking over my daughters toys and bitching about my parenting on the internet. AIBU or is she not perfect in every way as she seems to believe?'

Justilou1 · 29/08/2021 09:27

Obviously you are raising resilient kids who know that the real world doesn’t orbit around them. Great life skill! My DB is 46 and has never worked or maintained friendships, or relationships because he is a male Alyssa. He used to put himself into mental facilities when DP’s wouldn’t buy him new cars (because “HE HAS DREAMS TOO!!!”). DP’s are dead now, he thought I would take over from them. (He inherited virtually everything). Was stunned to find I felt no obligation to adult for him when I was too busy working and parenting three kids, etc. Gone NC, as he is aggressive and intrusive.

NormanSicily · 29/08/2021 09:28

@DifferentHair Well, that's certainly a different 'spin' on the story as told by the OP, who is there... Have you ever considered politics?

StrongCoffeAvalanche · 29/08/2021 09:29

@DifferentHair

Another one struggling to understand how a cheer squad formed.

Imagine the opposite 'I've gone on holiday with a friend and her children. She's been drinking excessively by herself every night. She disappeared last night and I discovered later she was out drinking with some people we just met while her poor children fell asleep in a pub. She's since come home and I can hear her stomping around drunk, knocking over my daughters toys and bitching about my parenting on the internet. AIBU or is she not perfect in every way as she seems to believe?'

Yeah but Alyssa sounds like a complete knob and the mum an even bigger one to pander to her rather than actually parent her. I think many of us have met an Alyssa and mum in the past and can share OPs sentiment.

For many a large part of going away with other families and their kids is so you can put the kids to bed then stay up and get pissed together in adult time. Sounds like this wasn't a mutual feeling, clearly they are not compatible holiday buddies.

Blossomtoes · 29/08/2021 09:30

[quote NormanSicily]@DifferentHair Well, that's certainly a different 'spin' on the story as told by the OP, who is there... Have you ever considered politics?[/quote]
It’s hardly spin to imagine how it might look from the other side, is it? Obviously it would be a very different story.

itsgettingwierd · 29/08/2021 09:30

@DifferentHair

Another one struggling to understand how a cheer squad formed.

Imagine the opposite 'I've gone on holiday with a friend and her children. She's been drinking excessively by herself every night. She disappeared last night and I discovered later she was out drinking with some people we just met while her poor children fell asleep in a pub. She's since come home and I can hear her stomping around drunk, knocking over my daughters toys and bitching about my parenting on the internet. AIBU or is she not perfect in every way as she seems to believe?'

Well I'm pretty sure the questioning would reveal that the friend is in fact drinking alone because she doesn't want to play dibble, watch horrid Henry and be pampered by a pampered 8yo until midnight!
MrsDooDaa · 29/08/2021 09:30

Agree that this has not been anyones finest hour - apart from your children who sound brilliant (can go to bed at 7pm, stay up in pub until 11pm, politely deal with difficult children etc. )

I don't think you should leave without saying goodbye to your friend though. I would say something like, "It's a shame the holiday didn't go as planned. Let's speak soon. Bye". And then leave, chalk it up to experience and never go on holiday with her again.

It would be better than just flouncing.

BroccoliFloret · 29/08/2021 09:32

@stepupandbecounted

Have a fun breakfast and a safe journey back.

Your 'friend' has lots of thinking to do after this holiday.

On the upside you now have new friends Frangi!

But the main takeaway from everything the OP has posted is that the friend won't be doing any thinking at all. Because in her mind, OP and her daughter are the unreasonable ones.

Why is everyone in such a rush to diagnose some sort of special need? We are friends with several families who have children with an additional need and they have to be shit hot parents with consistency and setting boundaries. Not every wee shite of a child has special needs. Some are just wee shites whose parents are hopeless.

Seems fairly clear that the OP's friend doesn't see an issue with Alyssa encroaching on adult time, always having to win and bossing all the other kids around. And because she sees no issue with it, she's not going to attempt to change. Or perhaps she does know deep down that she is a shit parent, that her kids tantrum and get their own way, and she doesn't want to go through the pain of addressing that behaviour.

I wouldn't be able to continue the friendship I don't think, which is sad for OP.

torchh · 29/08/2021 09:33

@DifferentHair

Another one struggling to understand how a cheer squad formed.

Imagine the opposite 'I've gone on holiday with a friend and her children. She's been drinking excessively by herself every night. She disappeared last night and I discovered later she was out drinking with some people we just met while her poor children fell asleep in a pub. She's since come home and I can hear her stomping around drunk, knocking over my daughters toys and bitching about my parenting on the internet. AIBU or is she not perfect in every way as she seems to believe?'

Where has it been said that OP has been 'drinking excessively' every night?
Original poster
FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 29/08/2021 09:33

@Puppalicious

I’m a little confused. The OP is a perfect parent who puts her children to bed at early o clock but on the last night goes out in sole charge of her children and gets drunk in a pub until 11pm keeping them out and everyone is…yeah, go girl? I’m so far from being a perfect parent and on one of these Spanish holidays where I was pressured to stay up late I did get drunk in a bar. I was so ashamed even though there was loads of extended family members there to look after them that I didn’t drink for months. How come everyone is ok with this? Confused Maybe it’s a cultural thing?
What have I got to be ashamed of? Other kids were there, I wasn't so drunk I couldn't keep them safe and get them home, and they played in the kids area happy as Larry
OP posts:
WimpoleHat · 29/08/2021 09:33

I don't think you should leave without saying goodbye to your friend though. I would say something like, "It's a shame the holiday didn't go as planned. Let's speak soon. Bye". And then leave, chalk it up to experience and never go on holiday with her again.

Normally, I’d agree with you. But the whole week has been spent pussyfooting around 3breakfasts and the awful Alyssa. They need to see the consequences of their behaviour- namely, that others don’t want to be around them. OP is rightly really fucked off. I’d let that stand.

HailAdrian · 29/08/2021 09:34

Well, that's certainly a different 'spin' on the story as told by the OP, who is there... Have you ever considered politics?

It's not untrue though. Plus, OP's made out that her kids can do no wrong but we all secretly know that's bollocks.

PartyPotato · 29/08/2021 09:34

@DifferentHair

Another one struggling to understand how a cheer squad formed.

Imagine the opposite 'I've gone on holiday with a friend and her children. She's been drinking excessively by herself every night. She disappeared last night and I discovered later she was out drinking with some people we just met while her poor children fell asleep in a pub. She's since come home and I can hear her stomping around drunk, knocking over my daughters toys and bitching about my parenting on the internet. AIBU or is she not perfect in every way as she seems to believe?'

Drinking wine excessively by herself every night? She’s mentioned having some wine, we don’t know how much. The reason she was drinking by herself is because her friends was upstairs for hours every evening, leaving OP sat downstairs waiting for her.

OP went out last night because her friend and her daughter had behaved atrociously. She was well within her rights to not want to spend any more of her time with them.

Oh no she knocked over some cards, how monstrous. It’s almost as if toys & games that get left all over the place might accidentally get trodden on.

Her ‘poor’ children staying out late on one Saturday night isn’t going to hurt them. Even less so if one nods off anyway.

BroccoliFloret · 29/08/2021 09:34

And yes, the reasons the accusations of "cheerleading" are coming out are because most of us have encountered an Alyssa and her parents in the past, and can absolutely put ourselves into OP's shoes.

Treezan82 · 29/08/2021 09:35

This thread has really given me pause for thought. My best friend is very much a "gentle" (passive) parent and there has been the odd occasion where it has been slightly annoying (her dd5 took my dd3 's toy from her - my dd cried and my friend sat down with her dd for a good 10 minutes asking her to think about her actions and make the right choice. Eventually I had to just say ok look, we are going to need to just take the toy back - sorry).
That said, we love friend and her dh kids loads and for the most part we all get on fine. There was talk of us all going away together next year - this thread has made me realise that would not be a good idea.

Original poster
FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop · 29/08/2021 09:36

@Dazedandconfused2021

I cant believe so many posters are congratulating OP. I think you've been cowardly all week. You haven't said much to your friend directly about the situation, you allowed them to approach your daughter in a threatening way, it was ok for your kids to stay up late when it suited you and for your son to fall asleep in a beer garden, and you've sneaked out this morning to avoid confrontation. Also you haven't addressed any of the posts asking why you're so reluctant to take your children away on your own. Your friend and her daughter sound awful but you don't sound much better.
I didn't know they were going to be so aggressive when they approached her I thought she'd take her to DD and leave them there to chat and I knew DD wouldn't be fazed by this.

I've already said I don't want to go away just the kids because TBH I'd find it a bit boring with no adult to chat to.

OP posts: