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Original poster

Afghanistan

346 replies

Refreshpage · 26/08/2021 19:45

More US troops killed today than over the last 4 years . Pulling put has cost more deaths of US troops than staying there.
Afghans now being slaughtered.
Massive fail from Biden following Trumps pull out.

Very, very 😔

OP posts:
username5786 · 27/08/2021 07:18

@GeorgiaGirl52

I usually try to ignore anti-American comments because Mumsnet is a UK-based group and will naturally be biased. However, I am curious to know - does the UK have Veteran's Hospitals and Rehabilitation Clinics especially and exclusively for military, retired military and former military? Employ over 15,000 medical personnel just for the Veterans? Does the UK pay pensions and educational scholarships for widows and orphans of active servicemen killed in action? Does the UK have "Wounded Warriors" or an equivalent charity that is supported by civilian donations? We got into the Afghanistan conflict because of the 9/11 attack just like we got into Vietnam because of the Gulf of Tonkin. We respond when attacked. Those of you who were born after 1975, read up on the Fall of Saigon. It will be deja vu all over again.
  1. You need to take a history lesson the US have been meddling with Afghanistan much longer than 2001.
  1. Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11 and should never have been invaded. Bush and Blair should be tried for war crimes.
  1. I don't get how it's one or the other we can help refugees and veterans.
  1. We have the NHS, benefits and a housing system.

The racism I have seen online is appalling. Imagine for one second being in their position. Many do not seem to realise these are humans with thoughts/feelings/lives/families.

username5786 · 27/08/2021 07:35

@Petardos

You're talking about refugees, it's not like they can nip into Boots at Kabul airport for a mask for crying out loud. Plus this country is riddled with covid anyway so a few more cases will hardly make a difference.

May be but that is not racist which was my point. Everything seems to be racist.

Let's face it though this is racist though isn't it. Every time it is said we need to take refuges suddenly many people come out with all excuses under sun on why we shouldn't and what terrible people these refugees are. They also seem to suddenly care about all the homes less veterans that they haven't mention since the last time this happened.

Surely masks can be handed to them on arrival. It's then our responsibility to ensure they quarantine.

But better still imagine the trauma they are going through. Have I brought my mask would be the last question on my mind.

DGRossetti · 27/08/2021 07:56

If any country needed invading after 9/11 it was Saudi Arabia.

thisismyhill · 27/08/2021 08:07

Have any of you looked on the Snapchat map thing? You can see videos from Kabul. It's really strange, yesterday there was one near the airport of a giant ice cream cone! Loads of people driving down the road and not a single woman can be seen. Just really strange.

SlamLikeAGuitar · 27/08/2021 08:14

It’s such a clusterfuck Sad
The whole situation has brought up so many different feelings in my circles (DH still serving, I’m a veteran, lots of serving and veteran friends). On one hand we are all utterly furious both with the political handling of it all, and with the sheer brass neck of the taliban/IS. On the other hand it’s feelings of utter despair and uselessness - asking ourselves “what was the point” Sad
Seeing babies being passed over fences have brought up some really horrible memories I thought got I’d never have to revisit, and I’m not going to lie, I’m struggling to keep my brave face on. I was at work last night with the news on in the background, and images of children were flashing around, I had to take myself off for a little cry in the cellar Blush

username5786 · 27/08/2021 08:15

@thisismyhill

Have any of you looked on the Snapchat map thing? You can see videos from Kabul. It's really strange, yesterday there was one near the airport of a giant ice cream cone! Loads of people driving down the road and not a single woman can be seen. Just really strange.
I will have a look. I did see an Instagram account of a woman and her family who I believe (hope) managed to get out. I believe the Taliban have ordered all women including those to work to now stay at home.
knittingaddict · 27/08/2021 08:34

@ActonSquirrel

I think sadly some people are still losing it over whether people wear masks or are leaving the house. People don't care. Hence the lack of uproar

I've watched with horror. I feel for those poor people. 2 thirds of Afghanistans population is under 30 so most won't remember living under the taliban 20 years ago. Can't imagine what they must be going through.

You think people who care about mask wearing don't care about Afghanistan? That is what you actually said? Wow.

You must be seriously obsessed with masks to even think about that in the context of a thread about Afghanistan. Get over yourself. Angry

MrsSkylerWhite · 27/08/2021 08:37

RefreshPage

I think we forget how lucky we are.
A week ago people were laughing at Afghans clinging to planes leaving. Desperate people. “

Who the hell was laughing?

FedNlanders · 27/08/2021 08:39

Most of the west won't care until it happens here.

Original poster
Refreshpage · 27/08/2021 08:40

@FedNlanders

Most of the west won't care until it happens here.
The way the withdrawal from Afghanistan was handled has put the West at increased risk.
OP posts:
SteveArnottsWaistcoat · 27/08/2021 08:44

I can’t get my head around why this happened like this. It seems so sudden and incredibly clumsy. What is Biden hoping to achieve with this? It’s such a huge regressive step backwards and a kick in the face for anyone who has served or lost their life there.

I really, really don’t get it and it must be so awful for the people who live there.

Guavaf1sh · 27/08/2021 08:45

How can anyone still think it’s right to allow animals to leave when there are still desperate human beings there? What’s wrong with this Pen Farthing!

SteveArnottsWaistcoat · 27/08/2021 08:45

I agree about problems in the west. It’s just inviting trouble.

malificent7 · 27/08/2021 08:47

Reminds me of Gilead. Moreover now the Taliban rule the West faces an extreme enemy.Great.

FedNlanders · 27/08/2021 08:55

@Guavaf1sh

How can anyone still think it’s right to allow animals to leave when there are still desperate human beings there? What’s wrong with this Pen Farthing!
Omg how many times can people not actually read what was going on. He had 200 people with him who other wise would not have been saved.

They are no longer safe.
The animals are not safe.

No ones getting out.

LemonTT · 27/08/2021 08:56

@simitra

I was in Afghanistan in the 1970s so I do have an interest in that part of the world. My feeling is that the west should never have got involved in a country which is deeply traditional and tribal attempting to impose our forms of government. We are wise to get our people out asap.
I totally agree with this. Superpower interference has resulted in 2 invasions, two periods of insurgency and a civil war. A rinse and repeat of centuries of failed occupation.

Right now the rapid pull out means they seem to avoiding civil war. Afghanistan needs to be left to the Afghanis to resolve. Outside interference will never be tolerated by its people. And we need to stop creating insurgents whose greatest calling card to young people will be the call to defeat the foreign invader.

The power base in Afghanistan always sat with the tribal leaders. Not the government in Kabul and the small number of people who lived there.

Guavaf1sh · 27/08/2021 08:57

The people of course need to be saved but why does he still insist on the animals when it is clear there are many more people that will certainly be left behind!?

chaosrabbitland · 27/08/2021 08:57

@FedNlanders

Most of the west won't care until it happens here.
op is right , regardless of how any individual feels ,what is happening there does affect us , the west has just got even more unsafe
FedNlanders · 27/08/2021 08:59

@Guavaf1sh

The people of course need to be saved but why does he still insist on the animals when it is clear there are many more people that will certainly be left behind!?
The animals were going in the hold
PlanDeRaccordement · 27/08/2021 08:59

Why should US continue to pay $100 billion per year and sacrifice lives of it’s young people just to keep Afghanistan at peace? It’s not their job to be world police. They’ve given the Afghan people twenty fucking years, an entire generation to get their shit together. The chaos and terrorism now is entirely the fault of the Afghan people and Taliban, not Biden and not the US.

HarrietsChariot · 27/08/2021 09:04

If the US invade and occupy a country, replacing the existing government with a democratic one, THEY ARE WRONG.

If the US leaves a country to fend for itself, THEY ARE WRONG.

If anything bad happens, regardless of whether or how the US were involved, THEY ARE WRONG.

I think the American public are in their 1939 mindset of not wanting to be involved in a foreign war. When they get criticized for doing something just as much as if they do nothing, why bother wasting money and lives?

People seem to decry the US for acting as the world's police force, but also if they don't act as that.

chaosrabbitland · 27/08/2021 09:05

@Guavaf1sh

The people of course need to be saved but why does he still insist on the animals when it is clear there are many more people that will certainly be left behind!?
this is on another thread , hes chartered a plane , and he wants to use it to bring all his animals .staff and any seats left over will be given to any afghans who can leave , its his rescue , these are his animals , its donations given to the charity that i believe have paid for the plane , if he wants to take his animals and not fill it with refugees thats his perogative . its a whole moot point really as its all up in the air now .there are certainly going to be lots of people left behind , as the taliban have said no one without a visa or foreign passport is leaving , so all those desperate ppl at the airport aint going nowhere sadly thanks to bidens last minute regulations change it looks like pen ,his aghan staff plus animals arent either , when they got to the airport biden had changed it 2 hours before , so the taliban turned them back . i expect all the losers on there commenting about cats and dogs shouldnt be getting put in front of humans , even though they werent can feel satisfied that pen farthing now appears to be screwed along with everybody else he wanted to bring .
frumpety · 27/08/2021 09:08

Has the world been a much safer place since the invasion of Afghanistan 20 years ago ?

BritishSummertime · 27/08/2021 09:11

@SlamLikeAGuitar

It’s such a clusterfuck Sad The whole situation has brought up so many different feelings in my circles (DH still serving, I’m a veteran, lots of serving and veteran friends). On one hand we are all utterly furious both with the political handling of it all, and with the sheer brass neck of the taliban/IS. On the other hand it’s feelings of utter despair and uselessness - asking ourselves “what was the point” Sad Seeing babies being passed over fences have brought up some really horrible memories I thought got I’d never have to revisit, and I’m not going to lie, I’m struggling to keep my brave face on. I was at work last night with the news on in the background, and images of children were flashing around, I had to take myself off for a little cry in the cellar Blush
I hope it's not trite to say thank you for your service. It's been really upsetting for me but I don't have any connection as it were so I can't imagine how triggering it must be for you Thanks
chaosrabbitland · 27/08/2021 09:12

@frumpety

Has the world been a much safer place since the invasion of Afghanistan 20 years ago ?
no i dont think so really , but its just got much more unsafe though