Afghanistan

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More US troops killed today than over the last 4 years . Pulling put has cost more deaths of US troops than staying there.
Afghans now being slaughtered.
Massive fail from Biden following Trumps pull out.

Very, very 😔

@TooOldandTired I have a lot of friends and an active social life. Some of them agree with me, some don’t.

Ben Wallace is a disgrace to humanity.

The American rescue was allowed in (with their dogs), but Farthing's team wasn't.

Oh and btw their staff weren't let in only the American woman who ran the rescue, to my knowledge they have still not been let in.

@Sparrowfeeder

Oh, and I would gladly push Ben Wallace under a train.

That is a vile thing to say. He has a difficult job to do but he has been clear that there are higher priorities. We are leaving behind translators who are at great risk as are their families. We couldn't get everyone who is at risk out, I think that would be nearly 40 million.

Ben Wallace is a disgrace to humanity.

Based on what exactly, because you disagree with him politically?
Because he didn't let PF and his animals skip the queue ahead of other people who had been waiting?

Glad you have lots of friends but frankly 'I would save an animals life ahead of a persons' is not really a difference of opinion it is a sign you are a psychopath but then maybe some of your friends are too.

I am amazed at the vitriol directed toward Biden on here! Taking a few points raised on thread:
Trump negotiated with Taliban with a deadline of May withdrawal; Biden has had to live with that and all its repercussions. Biden did not start this , but has gotten an amazing number of people out!! No defeat is "nice" or even orderly, and people were warned that there were terrorist threats before the suicide bombers of yesterday.
Biden has had a stutter all his life. He does amazingly well with it, but does at times need time to make the words come out: he is not senile. At times he also takes time to organize his thoughts; Trump just kept talking. I much prefer a thoughtful answer.
Biden is much more humane toward everyone. Trump mocked so many different groups, and is really a white supremacist, misogynist.
The withdrawal was never going to be perfect, but to blame Biden is unconscionable. So many others have parts to play in organizing, setting up standards on who to take, etc. This is not a one-man show.

This has all unravelled so quickly. I can’t help but feel that this will now define Biden’s presidency forever. I don’t see that he has any way back from this. Clearly the US were expecting the Taliban to take over, it’s the speed and timing that seems to have taken them by surprise. I think Biden’s reputation is now shot to pieces and he’s probably also killed off any real chance of Kamala Harris getting the democratic nomination in 2024.

I think it’s probably going to be worse than a return to pre-2001 Taliban rule. The people of Afghanistan are likely going to be caught in the middle of a power struggle between IS and the Taliban, who have a history of conflict. Biden sending in a few drones to take revenge on selected terrorists is not going to do much to weaken IS. This is a horrible mess. Unfortunately, I think it has passed a point of no return though, and there is nothing that can realistically be done at this stage to reverse the damage done by mismanaging the withdrawal.

In April foreign nationals in Afghanistan were told to leave the country. Why did so many stay? Why did others make trips to Afghanistan after that point?

Biden,God I am appalled.The state of the man.

@Goldenbear luckily I don't give a toss what your or anyone thinks of my priorities in life 😃

@adultingforever - I despised Trump and was so relieved when Biden was elected. I understand that Biden ended up with Trump’s deal and deadline. What I still don’t understand is why the whole withdrawal has been so chaotic. Why did they up and leave Bagram airbase in the middle of the night (if reports are to be believed)? Why did they leave so much equipment behind? Why not use the airbase as an evacuation centre which may have diluted the situation at Kabul airport? They apparently thought it would take a few months for the Taliban to reach Kabul. It took days.

This is the US army. A world superpower. Their logistics are normally second to none. It just all seems wrong.

I’m now wondering if there was a major threat of attacks on US soil if they didn’t withdraw quickly. Have also just watched a BBC new report about some of the planes, equipment etc left behind - a lot of it was given to the Afghan Army. It’s now being openly used by Taliban fighters. Who look quite at ease in it. I suppose there is a huge possibility that a good percentage of the Afghan Army were actually Taliban.

I don’t feel vitriol towards Biden. I’m just totally shocked and bewildered really as to how bad it ended up.

Peridot,

It's been chaotic because it caught the us by surprise.

Apparently Biden was warned but he didn't want to listen, he runs an autocraxy and people are scared to push things with him.
He chose to believe a notoriously corrupt self serving president of Afghanistan over his own advisors and also put people's lives at risk or dead now again on the say so of this person.

There was no contingent planning because Biden didn't expect it to happen

I feel vitriol to Biden and also for the shitty way he's treated his "allies" not taking a phone call from Boris for 36 hours...

@adultingforever

Biden is the president of course he is responsible. He overturned many things that Trump did so to say he couldn't have changed this is rubbish. He has a history of not wanting troops in Afghanistan, when Obama increased the troops he was against it.
You must be very politically biased or have serious rose tinted glasses on to think he is doing any sort of good job.
He seems totally incompetent.

I truly think Biden needs to step down. 12 Americans have died, and countless Afghans due to his utter incompetence. This is the same man that has the codes for nuclear arms. He is clearly and plainly not up to the job, his health is failing badly and his decision making and judgement is impaired. It would be best for him to step down after this, because it has exposed the dreadful secret that he isn't a well man and hasn't been for years.

He is a puppet leader, and one that is not even able to do that properly. I am worried about what he will do next (or not do next) He is a liability.

@Brighterblighter - I think that’s the bit I don’t get. WHY it took the US by surprise. And I think you are right in that Biden just didn’t listen to the advice he was given. It wasn’t a surprise to the military advisers, Ut he didn’t listen. And that’s scary. As scary as Trump but in a different way.

Massively agree with @TooOldandTired and @Peridot1.

Probably be told I am entitled and selfish but this is impacting my MH.

Before you flame me, I ve spent years volunteering with refugees.

For what it's worth and services here in the NW are stretched to capacity.

Peridot I've read he's running an autocracy in the white house.

I'm sure now.. The shit has hit the fan... He's listening but in those crucial days no...

He mentioned contingency planning but it wasn't enough or proper.

If this was trump there would be massive protest across media, London, New York etc!!

@adultingforever

I am amazed at the vitriol directed toward Biden on here! Taking a few points raised on thread: Trump negotiated with Taliban with a deadline of May withdrawal; Biden has had to live with that and all its repercussions. Biden did not start this , but has gotten an amazing number of people out!! No defeat is "nice" or even orderly, and people were warned that there were terrorist threats before the suicide bombers of yesterday. Biden has had a stutter all his life. He does amazingly well with it, but does at times need time to make the words come out: he is not senile. At times he also takes time to organize his thoughts; Trump just kept talking. I much prefer a thoughtful answer. Biden is much more humane toward everyone. Trump mocked so many different groups, and is really a white supremacist, misogynist. The withdrawal was never going to be perfect, but to blame Biden is unconscionable. So many others have parts to play in organizing, setting up standards on who to take, etc. This is not a one-man show.

Me too. Everyone seems to be conveniently also forgetting that the withdrawal from Afghanistan was formally announced and initiated in 2011 by President Obama. Trump inherited the withdrawal as did Biden. And it’s really shortsighted to blame the current situation on the guy that was left holding the bag for that last few months of what was a ten year withdrawal process!

• Biden didn't want to change anything, he s made it crystal clear he wants to pull out.

What most people are aghast at is, the how.

Biden is more humane?

Really??

Trump did lots of damage.. He was Vile but as as I remember he didn't contingency plan to burn people's passports then have them stand in a sewage ditch.... Totally vulnerable????

Afghanistan was running very well, it was a well oiled machine up until a few weeks ago. There could have been a smooth and moderate, CONTROLLED handover to the Afghan government, and with the support of Nato there could have been a potential power sharing arrangement or free and fair elections. A phased and gentle departure.

Instead Biden with 9/11 anniversary looming decided he was going to end it prematurely in order to please the American electorate, that he presided over the ending of the unpopular and expensive forever war, and celebrate the 20th anniversary of 9/11 with the end of occupation. This was all about his voting base, I don't believe he cared one jot about the Afghans being left in the lurch, the danger and risk to British and other allies supporting the US for twenty years (no wonder they are livid being left high and dry) and he pulls out without as much as conversation with his allies that have stood by the US through thick and thin. What a f*** disgrace. An absolute disgrace of such magnitude it will forever change the political climate.
What country would ever support the Americans now?
All the decades of goodwill and spirit of cooperation has gone up in smoke in just ten days. And even now he is still smirking and joking about it, he is a monster without empathy for the babies and children that will die because of his piss poor decisions. An embarrassment and disgrace to all of America.

It’s part of being the President. Every President carries the can for decisions that they make where their options have been limited by Presidents who went before them. Just because his choices were constrained by the decisions of the Trump and Obama administrations, (and he was a member of the Obama administration who was in favour of the withdrawal in any case) doesn’t mean he had no control over the situation at all, or that he can’t be criticised for his handling of it.

I swear when I saw Bush's shocked little monkey face on 9/11, I thought people will pay for this.

@stepupandbecounted

Afghanistan was running very well, it was a well oiled machine up until a few weeks ago. There could have been a smooth and moderate, CONTROLLED handover to the Afghan government, and with the support of Nato there could have been a potential power sharing arrangement or free and fair elections. A phased and gentle departure.

Instead Biden with 9/11 anniversary looming decided he was going to end it prematurely in order to please the American electorate, that he presided over the ending of the unpopular and expensive forever war, and celebrate the 20th anniversary of 9/11 with the end of occupation. This was all about his voting base, I don't believe he cared one jot about the Afghans being left in the lurch, the danger and risk to British and other allies supporting the US for twenty years (no wonder they are livid being left high and dry) and he pulls out without as much as conversation with his allies that have stood by the US through thick and thin. What a f*** disgrace. An absolute disgrace of such magnitude it will forever change the political climate.
What country would ever support the Americans now?
All the decades of goodwill and spirit of cooperation has gone up in smoke in just ten days. And even now he is still smirking and joking about it, he is a monster without empathy for the babies and children that will die because of his piss poor decisions. An embarrassment and disgrace to all of America.

There is so much wrong with this post. No, most of rural Afghanistan, and an estimated 50million people, never escaped Taliban control the entire occupation. So Afghanistan was never completely occupied and controlled by the US and Allies. So no, was not a well oiled, peaceful, blah blah. Taliban were still out there ruling millions and assassinating government officials at will.

Secondly, the withdrawal has been gradually happening for ten years. How much longer do you think it would need to be to be “smooth and moderate”? No amount of extra time would have changed anything, the Taliban have said from day 1 they’d out wait any foreign occupiers as their predecessors did the Soviets and the British.