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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To tell friend she she shouldn't use these words?

404 replies

Clawdy · 26/08/2021 08:35

Book group meeting last week, and one group member said she couldn't remember the name of a book she'd thought of choosing, but it was about two coloured girls and their halfcaste children. I said "Anne, you can't use those words" and she said "Why not, what words are you saying I should use?" I said "Black and mixed race" whereupon she said " Well, a mix of black and white is grey, should I say that?" and grinned at me uneasily. I turned away and started talking to someone else. Another member later said I had probably upset her, and maybe should have ignored her comments. What do you think? She was being racist, wasn't she? But I'd never heard her say anything like that in all the years I've known her.

OP posts:
Bloodybridget · 26/08/2021 08:42

YANBU, you couldn't let that pass without comment. Didn't anyone else in the group say anything at the time? Maybe instead of "you can't say that" (in fact she could, and did), "those ways of describing people of colour are very outdated and seen as offensive, Black and mixed heritage are generally acceptable now".

The person who told you you had upset her was definitely unreasonable!

Blueleah · 26/08/2021 08:43

Depends how old she is. The politically correct words change so often it’s hard to keep up. Maybe 20 years ago it was pc to say coloured and half caste, you weren’t allowed to say black.

Hercisback · 26/08/2021 08:45

I think you should have explained they are outdated and words that some people find offensive. Instead you just said she "can't use them".

Her response was equally rude but some people don't respond well to being challenged, especially in a large group. Do you have her contact details to perhaps speak to her privately?

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 26/08/2021 08:45

It's always worth pointing out what the current acceptable terminology is, around race, and half caste is definetly no longer appropriate.

I think the current acceptable term is person of colour.

QueenAdreena · 26/08/2021 08:45

Black and mixed heritage are generally acceptable now

I’ve still been using black and mixed race, is that frowned upon now?

80sPadme · 26/08/2021 08:46

@QueenAdreena

Black and mixed heritage are generally acceptable now

I’ve still been using black and mixed race, is that frowned upon now?

I would say It is perfectly acceptable, I have a mixed race child and she still uses the term mix race she is half white and half Asian
Ifonlyidknownthen · 26/08/2021 08:48

How old is your friend op? Things have changed in recent years, using the word coloured and half caste was what many people used to say and it was seen as accepted. Now we hear the term people of colour bandied around, which I don't really understand either as we are all of colour no matter where in the world we descend from, just different colours. Mixed race is what I use now to refer to anyone with more than one heritage, however I used to say half caste a few years ago as that's what people said. I in no way saw it as racist at the time and I think it's unlikely your friend was being overtly racist either just on the basis you mention.

Costumeidea · 26/08/2021 08:48

@Blueleah

Depends how old she is. The politically correct words change so often it’s hard to keep up. Maybe 20 years ago it was pc to say coloured and half caste, you weren’t allowed to say black.
Hard to keep up? Oh give over.

Those words have been unacceptable for a lot longer than 20 years too.

Regardless, even if she didn’t know the correct terminology, being corrected should be met with an ‘ok, sorry for using the wrong words’. Not a push back.

I swear to God, if ANYONE used the word half caste to refer to my DD…

MissTrip82 · 26/08/2021 08:48

@Blueleah

Depends how old she is. The politically correct words change so often it’s hard to keep up. Maybe 20 years ago it was pc to say coloured and half caste, you weren’t allowed to say black.
You find it hard to keep up?

I’m 43 and have never used these terms. They’ve been clearly unacceptable my entire life.

It most certainly is as not ‘pc’ to use these terms in 2001.

BlusteryLake · 26/08/2021 08:49

I do think you need to make allowances for age and context. My mum is nearly 80, and would use those terms in normal conversation because they were the accepted ones for her generation. The lady wasn't insulting anyone directly, so perhaps a gentler mention of how times have changed might have been a better approach.

LST · 26/08/2021 08:49

My 85 year old nan says coloured and half caste and I correct her every time.

Karwomannghia · 26/08/2021 08:51

The fact she argued about it shows she knows full well what she was saying and is wilfully continuing to use racist terms.

PlanDeRaccordement · 26/08/2021 08:51

I would have had a word with her privately as you know she was not intentionally using an unacceptable term. It’s ok to publicly call out actual racism, but not something like this imho.

Auntienumber8 · 26/08/2021 08:52

Person of colour is an American term and something I personally don’t like as one of those people.

Coloured has been deemed unacceptable for quite a while but it is possibly a generational issue with your friend at book club.

BAME and dual heritage are commonly used. I really don’t like BAME as it lumps every non white person together. Like some huge homogenous mass.

I think the thing that stands out for me is your friend is a smart arse with her retort.

LST · 26/08/2021 08:53

The word I would use is ignorant rather than racist as I am assuming she wasn't using the terms, though unacceptable, in a derogatory way?

ellenpartridge · 26/08/2021 08:55

It definitely wasn't ok to say half caste 20 years ago either! I'm 35 and I remember hearing someone say it about a friend when I was in primary school aged 7 or 8 and knowing that wasn't ok to say.

Op you were right to pull her up and her comment about "grey" shows she is a total twat. I couldn't look at her the same way!

MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously · 26/08/2021 08:55

Accepted terms change all the time and this term used to be the norm - unless she deliberately meant to cause offense, then I think it's actually quite rude to correct another adults speech. Especially in public.

Camomila · 26/08/2021 08:55

I use mixed race to describe my DC too.

I've not heard anyone used mixed or dual heritage in RL in the UK, am not sure if it is more common in the US?

Bloodybridget · 26/08/2021 08:55

@blueleah it certainly wasn't acceptable to say coloured and half caste twenty years ago, I'm in my late 60s and those expressions were out of favour by the time I was 20.
@queenAndreena I didn't mean to say "mixed heritage" was the only ok phrase, mixed race is certainly used by many POC too.

Gimlisaxe · 26/08/2021 08:56

@Karwomannghia

The fact she argued about it shows she knows full well what she was saying and is wilfully continuing to use racist terms.
Very much this, sometimes you say the wrong word, someone says actually you can't say that, you apologise, remember not to use it and move on. You don't fucking argue it
spotcheck · 26/08/2021 08:57

She wasn't being racist though? She used outdated terms. Is she from here?

Choccorocco · 26/08/2021 08:58

I doubt she was being racist and maybe she reacted as she did because she felt awkward.
I don’t think that use of those words immediately qualify someone as a racist - perhaps out of touch or ignorant though, in which case mentioning it was probably the right thing to do. I’m mixed race and I wouldn’t take offence unless it was said in an offensive way. I’m grateful that so many people are trying to do and say the right thing but I think we have to be careful to not be too judgmental as we move towards a more egalitarian world.

ChickpeaCrunch · 26/08/2021 08:58

Another member later said I had probably upset her, and maybe should have ignored her comments. What do you think?

No, you shouldn't have ignored it. And who cares if you upset her? Is her being upset more important to you than challenging her language? Only you know that.

steppemum · 26/08/2021 08:59

hmm, I wouldn't have a problem with the initial conversation - she used outdated words, you pulled her up, (as would I) so far all good.

But when she says - mix of black and white is grey - she is being deliberately offensive, and she knew it.
I would be pretty pissed off with that.

MrsSkylerWhite · 26/08/2021 09:00

How old is she? My parents (70s and 80s) would use those words.