To tell friend she she shouldn't use these words?

[Clawdy]

Book group meeting last week, and one group member said she couldn't remember the name of a book she'd thought of choosing, but it was about two coloured girls and their halfcaste children. I said "Anne, you can't use those words" and she said "Why not, what words are you saying I should use?" I said "Black and mixed race" whereupon she said " Well, a mix of black and white is grey, should I say that?" and grinned at me uneasily. I turned away and started talking to someone else. Another member later said I had probably upset her, and maybe should have ignored her comments. What do you think? She was being racist, wasn't she? But I'd never heard her say anything like that in all the years I've known her.

Sorry blue Leah My mixed heritage children were born in in all white town over 30 years ago and coloured and half caste were not acceptable then , never mind 20 years ago.
Anyone using those terms now is being wilfully ignorant or just racist.

It's quite staggering how some people would just politely ignore racist comments in case they might upset people like Anne. I abhor racism and will not passively sit quietly while somebody behaves like this woman. Her initial comment was wrong (is the colour of the characters' skin relevant? Very possibly if it was a story about them facing racism for being black/mixed race, but possibly not) and the correct response would have been to apologise and thank you for making her aware (why she is unaware I don't know, presumably she hasn't been living in a cave for the past 30 years). Doubling down with her second comment was beastly, two-fold. She displayed real ignorance and also attempted to 'style it out' and embarrass you at the same time.
It's no good ignoring comments like this and then going home and wishing you'd said something. It is down to everybody, not just black/mixed race/heritage minorities, to make sure people know this isn't actually ok.

She’s a racist. I would ignore her in that I wouldn’t have any small chat with her but will continue pointing out her racist comments.

@Tavelo

Although those words are outdated, I think that it'll always be problematic to jump in and correct someone's language use in front of others. It shows them up and most people would get defensive in that situation to be honest, especially if the people in the group aren't that familiar with one another.

So embarrassment is worse than leaving offensive racial epithets unchallenged?

But I'd never heard her say anything like that in all the years I've known her.

Subtle changes in personality, the loss of inhibitions and inappropriate remarks can be early signs of dementia.

It's mixed heritage. "Mixed race" is an offensive and outdated term in the same way "colored" is. The fact that people of mixed heritage describe themselves as "mixed race" doesn't make it OK - in the past people used "colored" to describe themselves, some people still use the n-word to describe themselves today.

I think retired primary teacher sums it up. A person used to pulling up others rather than being pulled up.

It was an inappropriate term by the late 70s. However I do feel we are all so cautious of using the right term for those who have different characteristics that we are tied up in knots trying to do right for fear of doing wrong.

What matters is whether people are genuinely accepting and kind rather than the terminology and if there were greater emphasis on what people do rather than what they say we would all be in a better place.

Yes. It is acceptable to call out racism anytime. Like others I simply do not accept that anyone these days under about 90 is not aware that using the terms coloured and half caste are anything but unacceptable terms.

Her reply marks her as a racist for me, not just an ignorant person (although really who is that ignorant in 2021).

I had a ‘friend’ at work like this. ‘Why is p*ki not ok, it’s just short for Pakistani’ ‘actually n-word is just short for Nigerian isn’t it?’ no.

I also don’t agree that the words change sooo often. Coloured and half-caste have not been ok for the entire 30 odd years I’ve been alive. As for BAME or mixed race I think people can appreciate that you’re not actively trying to be offensive.

It’s so awkward when you say something and everyone acts like you’re the one in the wrong.

@Blueleah

Depends how old she is. The politically correct words change so often it’s hard to keep up. Maybe 20 years ago it was pc to say coloured and half caste, you weren’t allowed to say black.

More like 50 years ago. So yes if OP drip feeds that this woman is 90, fair enough. Otherwise no.

My 80 year old grandmothers used to use halfcaste. But they made an effort to stop when society changed. No excuse for it.

It would have been more helpful to say why she shouldn't say those words.

I was born in 1991 and half caste was still used when I was in secondary school. It never bothered me to be honest but it was never said in a derogatory way.
Probably the most poignant moment of my school life was reading Half Caste by John Agard for the first time in English Lit.

I refer to my DC as mixed race.

Depressing that 22% of people think you're being unreasonable.

I had a ‘friend’ at work like this. ‘Why is pki not ok, it’s just short for Pakistani’ ‘actually n-word is just short for Nigerian isn’t it?’*

Same here but "friend" used "Jap" and "Nip" to describe my kid's. Laughed in my face when I explained why historically those were and still are seen as racist/offensive names. So her argument was "well Brit isn't offensive!", and it's like no, it's not, because it was never used in negative ways along with racist image posters/media/news propaganda etc during the war.

@FourTeaFallOut

I think you might have got a better response if you didn't carry on like she stepped on a landmine when she got it wrong.

You could have easily reworded the sentence - "oh I remember/ donk know the book with black girls and the mixed race children ... " instead of exposing her ignorance for the whole table.

And then if she continued on with the same language you could have been a bit more forthright.

Oh here they come.

How did she "carry on like she stepped on a landmine"?

"Anne, you can't use those words" - OP.

"Why not, what words are you saying I should use?" - Woman asked OP.

"Black and mixed race" - OP answered the question she was asked.

" Well, a mix of black and white is grey, should I say that?" and grinned at me uneasily - Woman did.

"I turned away and started talking to someone else" OP said nothing else. Just two short sentences and one was in response to a direct question. How was she "carrying on"? 🙄

It’s not “hard to keep up” for most people and I hate this attitude that it’s “soooo challenging to keep up with all the politically correct trends”

You did the correct thing. Either she is racist and pointing out you do not agree with using those words is the right thing to do or she is ignorant and she should be glad to learn the correct terminology before embarrassing herself in future.

To your friend who said you might have made her feel bad I would say "she has made me feel uncomfortable by using unacceptable language and her mocking response made you feel bad"

My mum is 79, a retired teacher, and used those terms in the 70s. She would never use them now. They weren't acceptable in 2001 either.

are you sure she was a teacher
how inappropriate

YANBU

Agreed @AllTheSingleLadies and is a born and bred British person with for example a white and a black parent mixed heritage? Using this term can be othering, can’t it, and rather like the question “where do you come from”?

Then the objection to mixed race as we are one human race.

My dd is 13. She uses mixed and talks very little about skin colour. I’ve also seen other people just use mixed. I prefer this term and presume it offends less people.

they were not acceptable 20 years ago either.

@GoodbyePorpoiseSpit

The book club has at least two racist members taking full advantage of their white supremacy. What are you going to do about it? I suggest ‘Why I’m no longer talking to white people about race’ as the next book you all discuss - it might help!

This.

People complaining about PC and how it’s all changing so fast they cannot keep up, do you also still use the disabilist terms of the 80s and prior?

And if not, why not?