When my MIL says I should be no more than a bystander?

[QueenofLindean]

My intervention, on behalf of my husband, (triggered after our kids had also been on the receiving end of a disproportionate admonishment this morning by MIL) got roundly rebuffed in this way. Making the point that I should be no more than a 'bystander' in a discussion - which had centred on trying to help restore a happy state of mind in my husband - really cut me to the quick - and probably not least as this was the only time in 17 years I have expressed a difference of opinion to my MIL. I was essentially told to butt out when trying to resolve everyone's equanimity. To get perspective, keen to get a sense of the general standing of the role /resps of a daughter in law in other family dynamics? Are you given equal pegging? Feel so churned up that my voice was dismissed by a woman who purports to be all for the sisterhood...

????

@IsItWorthTheHassle

*@QueenofLindean*

Because my take on it is that your MIL told you to get lost when you reminded her that her grandson has MH issues and could do with support and being shown he is still loved (despite the argument about water on the bathroom floor ).

I don’t think that’s right, I think it’s her husband, the mils son, th context of the mil saying not to interfere in her parenting and the op saying she was defending her husband indicates it’s not her grandson but her son.

I think mil has a right to ask that a 14 year old clear up the (her) bathroom mess in her own home. That isn't a contravention of his mental health rights. She's being nitpicking about the bedroom, since you'll obviously clean it before you leave, and she presumably doesn't see you often.

If you wanted a holiday where your DS and his needs could be centre stage, you needed to book such a holiday. You could have invited MIL to join your family holiday. That would have been a very different set up, with you as host, her as guest.

Going to stay in someone else's holiday home, as their guest (however much you are all family, there are hosts and guests), was never going to meet your 'let's all place DS's needs at the centre' criteria / desires. You made that choice.

In their conversation/argument you should have been a bystander. It was between them, and although you were hoping to smooth things over she felt patronised. In the broader relationship, you are a family, of course you are not a bystander.

In answer to your question, my MIL and I are close and get on well, but there is a line. She thinks I am a wonderful daughter-in-law but unlike her three DC, I’m not ‘really’ family.

I'm afraid all your 'oh but I was just trying to restore everyone's equanimity' and 'yet she claims to be for the sisterhood' makes you sound interfering and disingenuous.

It'll sound trite but for me it'd hinge on how much water.. a small amount splashed about or inches deep risking flooding and the electrics in a remote country cottage.
Op said to just close the door and ignore it, who's then going to clear it up?

MH issues or not, a simple "please could you wipe up the floor ds?" would be fine. No need for. MIL to say it, you could.
It sounds like you're interfering and trying to control everything and everyone's relationships. If I was MIL I'd be annoyed.

John Prescott used to shoehorn long words into his speeches too - and as here they sometimes fit and sometimes were just ever so slightly off and you’d know then it was all for show

@30LadyGAgain
*No Brefugee you've got the second part of that all wrong. OP clearly states there have been mental health issues."

We'll have to agree to disagree a out OP stating anything clearly. I understood nearly nothing.

It boils down to: MIL is not unreasonable to complain about water on the floor
If there are MH issues OP is not unreasonable to want to handle it her way. OP is unreasonable of MIL is unaware of issues (does OP speak as she writes?)

Etc

You overstepped the mark in telling someone else how to conduct their relationship with another person.

This has nothing to do with your MIL seeing you as an equal or not. Its about you overstepping a boundary that is naturally drawn in the sand and you do need to step back and not interfere in others relationships

She just sounds really nasty tbh

Covid has been hard for everyone - no matter their circumstances it's just been 18 months of unremitting shit. Your focus, rightly, is on DS1 and making sure he feels supported and not attacked because of the way you have all lived during that time. But if MIL has been largely alone all this time then that is probably why she is more affected/upset/stress by upheaval in her home of you all staying.

I think the suggesting she shows your DH how he is loved by cuddling him etc is something that would have got me grumpy and snappy too - wouldn't you feel the same if someone said it to you about your DS? You presumably didn't mean it unkindly or patronisingly, but can you see why she might feel that way?

If you've managed to get on and be friendly and happy together for 17 years I'd cut everyone some slack, let things calm down and move on. If it helps, I had a similar hot point of a falling out with my MIL of 10 years just after my DS was born. I was hormonal, she had a lot of stuff going on in her life, we just caught each other on the wrong day. She was packing her things, saying she was leaving, never darken the door again etc etc and I was distraught because I love her like a second mum and thought this was it and it was all over and we'd never be close again. It took a while but it all came out in the wash with a little distance to let things calm.

Sending best wishes though - it's been a tough time for everyone and it sounds like DS and your family have all been through a lot

This bit is confusing:
On return home I say to MIL DS could probably do with a reminder he is loved by others in his family than just me, so could you maybe tell him that/put an arm around the shoulder etc? MIL then says it is insulting to be told how to love your child (which prompted the ensuing bystander / butt out rebuff.)

If you asked your MIL gently for help with YOUR ds by asking her to be especially nice to him then fair enough.
If you told your MIL how to interact with HER ds then you were overstepping the mark.

I've re-read the OP's posts. And all the others. I'm going to say one thing about OP's writing style because I think it's relevant: paragraphs would have made a huge difference. The language was a bit like wading through treacle and first time my eyes glazed over on seeing the Wall Of Text. Paragraphs would make it less likely that you got some of the replies you did. tl;Dr is a Thing for a reason.

I get you feel protective of your DS with MH issues. I, too, have a DC with MH issues and am really glad to see them do the personal hygiène things that dépression makes difficult for them.

Had you explained clearly to MIL prior to the visit about DS? That would have been the optimal time to say "er're taking this trip as an opportunity to show DS thst he is loved. If there are issues please come to us with them and not DS as it may delay his recovery". Kind of thing.

Having said that, a gentle reminder from either of his parents to leave the bathroom as he found it (less critical than "clean up after yourself") is not detrimental most of the time. Again preferably before arrival.

And as we say to parents: if tour child's other parent is admonishing them - whether you feel they're in the wrong or not (unless it is dangerous) - don't butt in. Take them to one side, if necessary and give your point of view, but don't butt in.

Assuming it was your DH (not your DS) you told your Mother-in-law how to interact with, then I do think you were unreasonable. As she would have been had she said similar to you. There are exceptions to what I am about to say, obviously, (extreme vulnerability, Ill health, lack of capacity, abuse), but generally I do not think people should give unsolicited advice about how to interact/manage relationships with other adults. It comes across as very patronising.

This was not about you being a “bystander”, so much as it was about you observing boundaries and not trying to manage the relationship your mother-in-law has with her own, presumably competent, adult son.

It sounds as though you have had a difficult time though. You will almost certainly be over sensitive and I think, possibly, lacking some of the sound judgment you would usually employ given the past months of social isolation.

I definitely think your morher-in-law over reacted by leaving. Hope things improve soon.

Could you just write in normal language what’s happened then we can give you our thoughts.

Are you using Google Translate? I can't understand what you are on about.

@AnneLovesGilbert

The snark is reflecting worse on the people doing it than the OP.

This.

There is a lot at play here.
MIL may well not be used to much company any more after the past 18 months we've all had.
DS's mental health issues won't be helped by sharp criticism but at the same time don't mean he doesn't have to leave a shared bathroom in a fit state.
It may have been better to choose a holiday together whereby you are on neutral territory, and didn't have to be around her all the time. Old people find 24/7 company very exhausting although they look forward to it and cherish the memories afterwards.
You sound very offended by the comment but I wouldn't be. I'm very fortunate with my wonderful MIL but generally hold back in conversations about their family dynamics just to respect their space. Doesn't mean we are not close, I think we have a lot of mutual respect and I know she is very grateful I married her son.
Your MIL sounds rude, which can't come as a shock?

And I took from it that the OP was asking grandmother to show some kindness and affection to her grandson.

Agree with those who say that this could have been sorted out with an apology for the wet floor and your or your children cleaning the mess up without resort to the excuse of mental health issues. I can imagine being your MIL, miffed at nearly slipping over on a wet bathroom floor or scared that the electrics in the room downstairs will be affected, and getting a long explanation from you of how it's a miracle that your son has even managed a shower so please don't go mentioning the puddles he left behind him.

You (and I include your DH in this) seem over-sensitive and inclined to over-thinking stuff. A multi-generational family holiday in a holiday cottage is bound to include moments when no one likes each others' behaviour and sometimes they say so. If you've really only once previously expressed a difference of opinion to your MIL then I regard that as an absolute miracle and possibly part of the problem.

As you've said, everyone has such high expectations of holidays this year — but holidays with teenagers are rarely easy. It was almost bound to end in tears.

The way we learn resilience is by watching our parents managing situations like this positively — and that means avoiding going into excuse mode or disappearing down the wormhole of blame and recrimination.

I have no idea what happened during your pitch and putt experience. What I can imagine is that your MIL, after 18 months spent mainly on her own, looked forward to an idyllic few days with her family and instead found herself living in a messy cottage with a grandchild who left water all over the bathroom floor and parents who seemed to regard this as something she should be celebrating rather than criticising. Later, after more tension and discomfort on a trip out, when she's in that 'I love you but I really don't like you at the moment' stage, you come up and tell her she needs to put her arm around her grandchild (or her son, who knows?) so that he feels loved. I can imagine feeling the need to get out of there too.

There's no right, no wrong, just a series of poorly-handled situations in which both sides might have done better. Move on how and concentrate on how to fix it.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation, it's terribly unkind to tell someone that they are simply a 'bystander' in the family. And people need to stop picking on the OP for her writing style.

@cervixuser

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation, it's terribly unkind to tell someone that they are simply a 'bystander' in the family. And people need to stop picking on the OP for her writing style.

I don't think anyone did — though it's difficult to be certain. I think that the 'bystander' bit was the OP's description.

That sounds really hard op. I felt equally in rank with late MIL however I had a close and loving relationship with her. I am fairly sure x bil did not feel this way. Though mil was not one of to force her view on you so he may not have minded. Never asked him and sil plus bil have separated after mils passing.