to continue to support Extinction Rebellion

[54321nought]

carrying on from the first thread

here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4327567-to-support-extinction-rebellion-more-London-action-tomorrow?msgid=110225062#110225062

But it seems unlikely…
To you, because that’s your opinion.
I don’t agree.

No such thing as bad publicity as they say!
Well then “they” haven’t thought about it very much or they would realise that it’s entirely possible to have bad publicity.

@DynamoKev

But it seems unlikely… To you, because that’s your opinion. I don’t agree.

Well, yes, I can see that, that is why I said I can't argue all day

You are perfectly entitled to be wrong

You are perfectly entitled to be wrong
As are you.

@DynamoKev

You are perfectly entitled to be wrong As are you.

The wink was supposed to make it lighthearted @DynamoKev, I was just trying to wrap it up in a jokey way.

The wink was supposed to make it lighthearted @DynamoKev, I was just trying to wrap it up in a jokey way.
OK, thanks for clarifying.

And still we don’t know, what exactly is the point of these nonsense protests. These ‘activists’ having a nice day out in central London in the middle of summer changes nothing. While China and US make up 43% of global carbon emissions. Why are so many people taken in by such blatant virtue signalling.

You don’t know the point sst1234 because you don’t want to see the point. But don’t worry, you’ve got lots of company.

Thank you lannistunut for the flowers.

Interesting discussion on Women's Hour this morning about Greenham Common - reflecting on the way they were perceived at the time and their legacy.

People have a right not to care about the planet. One person's demand that another should change their behaviour to help the environment or prevent a climate catastrophe is no more valid than another person's demand to carry on flying, eating meat and driving a Range Rover.

Both believe that the other is wrong and that the other should change their behaviour because of their own actions or beliefs. Arguably the second person has a more valid point, because climate change will only be a significant problem in the future (as in, extinction of the human race) whereas the first person demands sweeping lifestyle changes immediately.

Anyway, we live in a democracy. If enough people want climate issues to be put front and centre, they can vote for politicians that espouse these views. If those politicians don't exist, people can stand knowing they've already got huge numbers of supporters on tap. Democracies don't elect leaders based on who shouts the loudest or has the largest mob of thugs behind them, they elect leaders through argument and debate. Peacefully.

I think your post is morally bankrupt.

We don’t have a functioning global democracy. If we did we would have made the necessary changes decades ago. Countries which suffered the most have had the least say.

@Darker

Interesting discussion on Women's Hour this morning about Greenham Common - reflecting on the way they were perceived at the time and their legacy.

I have massive respect for the Greenham Women - they were peaceful and they targeted the actual installations. I was around at the time (even went on a days NVDA myself at RAF Molesworth). Non of them (or us) stopped ordinary people going to work or medical appointments or did stunts to attract publicity (or in modern parlance "raise awareness"). They are not remotely comparable with XR.

@Darker

I think your post is morally bankrupt.

We don’t have a functioning global democracy. If we did we would have made the necessary changes decades ago. Countries which suffered the most have had the least say.

I agree we have a democratic deficit - at the very least we need PR in the UK.

Do you think PR would help or what other changes would be needed to make our democracy "functioning"?

I'd lay money that most people complaining about XR disrupting things have not been inconvenienced at all or only mildly inconvenienced.

Greenham women were hugely derided at the time. It cost public money to police their activity.

@Darker

I'd lay money that most people complaining about XR disrupting things have not been inconvenienced at all or only mildly inconvenienced.

Greenham women were hugely derided at the time. It cost public money to police their activity.

@Darker, you know your own view is "hugely" biased, right?

Actually I didn't mean these quoted lines. I mean all of your arguments.

@Darker

I'd lay money that most people complaining about XR disrupting things have not been inconvenienced at all or only mildly inconvenienced.

Greenham women were hugely derided at the time. It cost public money to police their activity.

I remember them being derided - it was hard going because almost everyone I worked with hated them and I supported them.
The fact remains, they didn't do the protests by putting a pink boat or a table in central London, or gluing themselves to Tube trains. They focused on the source of the issue. The source of the climate emergency is not people going to work or a medical appointment on a Tube train in London.

Iannistunut

No such thing as bad publicity as they say!

Not sure the message is getting through. The attendance at Reading festival was mostly young people who are supposed to the ones most environmentally aware but look at the mess they’ve left at the festival site, including masses of throwaway tents.

XR are directly targeting printing presses and milk factories and the financial areas where people who invest in fossil fuels are based. They have targeted airports.

I don’t agree with. All they do (I didn’t agree with targeting public transport and I seriously worry about drones causing an air accident and death to innocent people) but I think that they are making a lot of noise to people who otherwise shut their eyes and ears to the damage being done to the environment.

@Andante57

Iannistunut

No such thing as bad publicity as they say!

Not sure the message is getting through. The attendance at Reading festival was mostly young people who are supposed to the ones most environmentally aware but look at the mess they’ve left at the festival site, including masses of throwaway tents.

This is insane. What connects young people behaving atrociously at Reading to XR?

What have I missed?

I agree with Harriet, although I do support the right of anyone including those in favour of hunting foxes and XR and many other groups to demonstrate within the law and peacefully but not criminal damage and they should be forced to pick up all their own litter and not stop people going to work or hospital etc.

My issue with Harriet is that her arguments don't take into consideration the people who suffer as a result of other's choices.

What about the 'rights' of an asthmatic child who lives next to a main road, a community in Bangladesh at risk from rising sea levels, the people who will die and lose their livelihoods in disasters? See link below:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58396975

Arguably the second person has a more valid point, because climate change will only be a significant problem in the future (as in, extinction of the human race)
Eh, have you missed the part where climate change is already here and already impacting billions of people worldwide? I’d say the people whose houses have burned down, whose children have drowned in front of them, who are starving through drought or displaced by heat, would probably say the problem is already pretty significant

[quote Darker]My issue with Harriet is that her arguments don't take into consideration the people who suffer as a result of other's choices.

What about the 'rights' of an asthmatic child who lives next to a main road, a community in Bangladesh at risk from rising sea levels, the people who will die and lose their livelihoods in disasters? See link below:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58396975[/quote]
Darker - I accept your points, but I'm having trouble imagining how the power structures in the world will need to change to favour those people currently at risk. I have asked you a few times what you think but you choose not answer (obvs you aren't obliged).
I will confess I don't see XR and the like as a beacon of democracy.