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Original poster

to continue to support Extinction Rebellion

390 replies

54321nought · 24/08/2021 20:18

carrying on from the first thread

here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4327567-to-support-extinction-rebellion-more-London-action-tomorrow?msgid=110225062#110225062

OP posts:
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9
SusanBAnthony999 · 31/08/2021 11:08

Mob rule has no place in a democracy.

Darker · 31/08/2021 11:11

Where is the mob rule?

You might be interested in the deliberative democracy model advocated by XR.

Return2thebasic · 31/08/2021 12:13

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lannistunut · 31/08/2021 12:22

If most of the people think it's unreasonable to support XR, don't you consider something is not right with XR

This is only correct if the aim of XR is to win popular support for themselves. It is not. The aim of XR is to raise awareness.

XR are succeeding in making more people aware of the existence of XR and their key message - 'there is a climate emergency'.

The fact people don't like them matters not. They will not be standing for election, and XR accept the legal framework within which they are operating.

lannistunut · 31/08/2021 12:26

I think plenty of people are just pissed off with XR because they are not playing the game of pretending it'll all be OK. They are saying - loudly and right in people's faces - that the planet is fucked. They are scary, but they're not wrong in their analysis of the seriousness of the climate situation IMO.

Darker · 31/08/2021 12:31

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RightYesButNo · 31/08/2021 12:41

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DynamoKev · 31/08/2021 12:57

@lannistunut

I think plenty of people are just pissed off with XR because they are not playing the game of pretending it'll all be OK. They are saying - loudly and right in people's faces - that the planet is fucked. They are scary, but they're not wrong in their analysis of the seriousness of the climate situation IMO.
If the planet is fucked what is the point of anything?
lannistunut · 31/08/2021 13:00

@DynamoKev There is time to limit and mitigate, but yes, what is the point of anything is a pertinent question Sad

Return2thebasic · 31/08/2021 13:01

@lannistunut

If most of the people think it's unreasonable to support XR, don't you consider something is not right with XR

This is only correct if the aim of XR is to win popular support for themselves. It is not. The aim of XR is to raise awareness.

XR are succeeding in making more people aware of the existence of XR and their key message - 'there is a climate emergency'.

The fact people don't like them matters not. They will not be standing for election, and XR accept the legal framework within which they are operating.

If that's really their goal (by making people hear "their voice" and see the destruction they created for not only the government but also the ordinary people trying to make a living/support their families), then they have already succeeded.

However, it's not only a shame but also such a waste of energy/resources that by alienating the public, they gave a bad name to environmentalist and people who do care about the planet.

Protest as such, without achievable goals set to government alongside those more ambitious/challenging ones, the impact would be very limited. It's not none, but just very limited in comparison to the amount of efforts/resources put in.

Probably because my work is on the project management side. My philosophy is you give pressure by giving very specific achievable and incremental goals. Only that leads to a positive advancement to your goal.

Again, this also leads me to think, do XR really care about making a difference to help the planet in its maximum capacity, or it's more about satisfying their own pride. (No offense. Just some reflection.)

lannistunut · 31/08/2021 13:06

However, it's not only a shame but also such a waste of energy/resources that by alienating the public, they gave a bad name to environmentalist and people who do care about the planet.

XR are not alienating the public to their cause, they are only alienating people to their own organisation, and their organisation does not need public support.

lannistunut · 31/08/2021 13:08

Probably because my work is on the project management side. My philosophy is you give pressure by giving very specific achievable and incremental goals. Only that leads to a positive advancement to your goal.

This clearly does not work with the environment, this is fairytale talk. Why is the government stll in favour of burning fossil fuels - including finding new oil fields - when better alternatives exist? Money money money money money money money money money money.

Return2thebasic · 31/08/2021 13:12

@lannistunut

However, it's not only a shame but also such a waste of energy/resources that by alienating the public, they gave a bad name to environmentalist and people who do care about the planet.

XR are not alienating the public to their cause, they are only alienating people to their own organisation, and their organisation does not need public support.

"lone soldiers"? Quite brave. But shame, would all be forgotten in 10 years time. right now, it's a nuisance only.

The cause is absolutely right. But the means/goals are completely out of mind.

Darker · 31/08/2021 13:12

It's too late for 'incremental'.

Governments need to act now. 'Now' now. Not next year now or 2050 now.

The day your house is flooded or burning and there is no food on the shelves is not the day to cancel your trip to long-haul flight to Bali and order a home composting kit.

DynamoKev · 31/08/2021 13:15

@Darker

It's too late for 'incremental'.

Governments need to act now. 'Now' now. Not next year now or 2050 now.

The day your house is flooded or burning and there is no food on the shelves is not the day to cancel your trip to long-haul flight to Bali and order a home composting kit.

So are you (and or XR) saying all foreign holidays involving air travel should stop immediately? (I don't have any axe to grind since I hate air travel)
lannistunut · 31/08/2021 13:19

@DynamoKev

I personally have no relationship with XR.

What we know is that 75% of flights are taken by 15% of people.

I would not say an annual holiday is the first issue to tackle.

The question really is - do you think those 15% should continue to take as many flights as they wish? Who are they, why are they flying, what alternatives exist?

lannistunut · 31/08/2021 13:19

At least I am hoping I have remembered those air stats correctly Grin

NotDavidTennant · 31/08/2021 13:21

Governments need to act now.

Yes, but act to do what? This is what pisses me off the XR. They want the government to be honest with the people, but XR themselves won't honsetly come out and say what needs happen.

lannistunut · 31/08/2021 13:22

And lest I be called a hypocrite, it is more than fifteen years since I took a flight anyway.

lannistunut · 31/08/2021 13:23

@NotDavidTennant

Governments need to act now.

Yes, but act to do what? This is what pisses me off the XR. They want the government to be honest with the people, but XR themselves won't honsetly come out and say what needs happen.

Why is it XR's job to say what the government refuses to say?

You yourself know what needs to happen, why don't you be honest and come out and say it?

Darker · 31/08/2021 13:26

I'm not XR.

To save the planet we have to change our way of life and expectations. Analogy might be giving up smoking to avoid lung disease. If you stop early (environmental examples being banning CFCs, removing lead from petrol, banning DTD) the benefits might be seen.

I'd probably go for a 'rationing' approach to long haul flights as some travel is probably inevitable for military, medicine etc. I'd hate not to be able to travel but I wouldn't riot for my right to get anywhere by plane if it was non-essential.

NotDavidTennant · 31/08/2021 13:29

You yourself know what needs to happen, why don't you be honest and come out and say it?

Well yes I know what needs happen. Most flights need to stop, most people need to give up their cars, most consumption of meat and dairy needs to stop, virtually all fossil fuel power generation needs to stop, most people need to reduce their consumption of manufactured goods to the bare minimum.

Even if those things are feasible without completely senidng the economy into the toilet (I suspect they're not), no politican in their right mind is going to campaign on that platform. There would be riots if they tried even half of the things I've just suggested.

lannistunut · 31/08/2021 13:30

XR are just naming the problem, it is not their job to try to persuade the public on board. If people don't want to get on board (with the fact the environment is in crisis) then that is their choice. But to act as though people 'don't realise' is nonsense. Unless you are either a) thick or b) in denial or c) uncaring, it is pretty obvious. If you are a, b or c then you're not going to get on board anyway.

It is the insanity of the whole of society waiting for someone else to tell them to do what they themselves know needs to be done that, for me, makes XR's approach make sense, in that none of it makes sense Confused.

DynamoKev · 31/08/2021 13:32

[quote lannistunut]@DynamoKev

I personally have no relationship with XR.

What we know is that 75% of flights are taken by 15% of people.

I would not say an annual holiday is the first issue to tackle.

The question really is - do you think those 15% should continue to take as many flights as they wish? Who are they, why are they flying, what alternatives exist?[/quote]
do you think those 15% should continue to take as many flights as they wish? Who are they, why are they flying, what alternatives exist?
No I wish the fuckers would pack it in, it's noisy and it fucks up the air.

Speaking personally, I would be happy to stop all flying for other than disaster aid - but I am asking @darker if that's what they and/or XR want.

DynamoKev · 31/08/2021 13:35

@NotDavidTennant

You yourself know what needs to happen, why don't you be honest and come out and say it?

Well yes I know what needs happen. Most flights need to stop, most people need to give up their cars, most consumption of meat and dairy needs to stop, virtually all fossil fuel power generation needs to stop, most people need to reduce their consumption of manufactured goods to the bare minimum.

Even if those things are feasible without completely senidng the economy into the toilet (I suspect they're not), no politican in their right mind is going to campaign on that platform. There would be riots if they tried even half of the things I've just suggested.

Exactly. I will give up my car etc - but then I'll probably lose my job or else the company I work for will have no income (same outcome), so then I can't pay my mortgage. So we'll have saved the planet but I'll be homeless.