to continue to support Extinction Rebellion

[54321nought]

carrying on from the first thread

here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4327567-to-support-extinction-rebellion-more-London-action-tomorrow?msgid=110225062#110225062

But @Xenia you are an extremely wealthy lawyer earning thousands a year. You really aren't going to be wiped out first are you ? What about your children ? What you are basically saying is 'I'm not bothered if we as a race are extinguished, just let me carry on as I am.'

@Seagullsstopit

And people find the term "Need to be educated" very patronising, yet another turn off

Lots of people here have said the the way to tackle climate change is through individual actions such as changing diet, reducing waste, reducing travel.

If that is to happen at the level needed to achieve change then people will need to believe that climate change is man made and that the need for action is urgent. Scientists have come to a consensus on this.

Or, if people believe governments need to act they need to make an informed choice about who to vote for.

Education is key.

You don't have to agree with XR. They're dragging the overton window so climate change is more prominent. Environment is now no2 in voter priorities. I don't care if they're annoying, anything that makes people think is good.

Certainly any high profile protest does get an issue into people's minds.

I think the recent fires + floods across the globe have had a big impact on public consciousness.

For anything to change we need awareness that climate change is happening plus a plan of action based on the evidence.

For all I know il could be too late but I’m all for trying.

Effy I think most of us will be wiped out (or rather our great grandchildren) around the same time or in not too different a timescale.

I put others above humans. I put dogs and worms and rocks above us. Is that so very wrong? Does ER think protection of humans is better than that of say pandas?

@Xenia

Effy I think most of us will be wiped out (or rather our great grandchildren) around the same time or in not too different a timescale.

I put others above humans. I put dogs and worms and rocks above us. Is that so very wrong? Does ER think protection of humans is better than that of say pandas?

Climate change will cause suffering for most species - hunger, extreme temperatures, loss of shelter and safety. A battle for resources.

Doing nothing increases suffering.

@Darker

That poll was done in 2019 in the month of the protest.

I'd be interested to see if public opinion has shifted in the ensuing two years and the developing consensus that climate change is man made and that action is needed now.

Well yes, that second link that shows their popularity at only 19%, as I stated, as stable for last two quarters of 2020 and first two quarters of 2021… but as usual, no one on the XR side of this thread pays any bloody attention to the truth. I’ll just include the screenshot since a link was STILL too much, and then I think I’m done with this thread and doing your work for you. You don’t have public support, XR is not using the right tactics, and you need to hitch your wagon to another star (and I’d recommend not a star at all, but real people) if you want to make a climate change difference.

And statistics about climate change by itself have nothing to do with this discussion and XR. As stated, MANY people in this thread who disagree with XR care deeply about climate change. I’m one of them.

I don’t represent XR. I’m not a member. I share some of the concerns expressed here. I was very unhappy about the public transport disruption two years ago, for example.

But I do think non-violent disruption is justified by the nature of the crisis. And I like a lot of their messaging, e.g., around not blaming individuals.

@Darker

I don’t represent XR. I’m not a member. I share some of the concerns expressed here. I was very unhappy about the public transport disruption two years ago, for example.

But I do think non-violent disruption is justified by the nature of the crisis. And I like a lot of their messaging, e.g., around not blaming individuals.

What is society if not a collection of individuals?

Most of the top 100 polluters are oil giants. They wouldn't pollute if they had no customers. Those customers are individuals, are they not?

The customers of top polluters are not individuals but other big companies and governments.

Individuals trying to reduce their reliance on fossil fuels will struggle to do so because the world economy is built around these industries. E.g. we can fly cheaply while trains are expensive. Imported food is often cheaper than home grown. Farmers can’t sell their wool at any price because the cost is undercut by other materials. Individuals can’t resolve this unless they are relatively well off and able to make ethical choices.

This is the response when Greens get a tiny bit of political influence.

@Darker

This is the response when Greens get a tiny bit of political influence.

You don't agree that people might be more willing to vote for the Scottish Green Party if they didn't sound like a bunch of student Marxists?

Student marxists ? I really can't imagine that the green party are 'marxist'..
Guess that's the insult that strikes most fear into people. Hated Corbyn but same accusations were thrown at him too. As if being a student and having vaguely left wing ideas means you are wildly idealistic, that actually doing something about climate change is unrealistic and beyond us. And that is the get out clause. Only have to read that article by Andrew Neil, same old knee jerk dog whistle headlines reassuring folk that they don't have to do anything, just a load of old lefty hand wringing eco warriors...

I know a lot of greens, they aren't concerned about environmental issues it seems. Mostly trans idealology and failing to perform when they do get local council seats.

whether or not you like the style of their protests, XR has done a huge amount to raise people's awareness of the climate crisis and the need for us all to the action against it.

And it's helped to raise its profile in parliament too. With help from Greta Thunberg and David Attenborough.

That cn only be a good thing.

@Seagullsstopit

I know a lot of greens, they aren't concerned about environmental issues it seems. Mostly trans idealology and failing to perform when they do get local council seats.

Are you particularly interested in trans ideology yourself?

@Tulipomania

whether or not you like the style of their protests, XR has done a huge amount to raise people's awareness of the climate crisis and the need for us all to the action against it.

And it's helped to raise its profile in parliament too. With help from Greta Thunberg and David Attenborough.

That cn only be a good thing.

What have XR actually achieved?

Something tangible, please.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/25/extinction-rebellion-assessing-the-impact

This might be of interest. From 2019.

@DdraigGoch Protest is protest, that's enough IMO.

Do people think they are wrong and the climate is not very important? Presumably not for the majority, most people do understand the issue.

What they do is ask the question - if this is a crisis, why the heck are politicians doing so little? I think asking that question is enough, it is up to the wider electorate to do the work of translating it into political pressure.

DdraigGoch They have brought about a change in public attitudes to climate change in just 3 years which established organisations like Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth have not achieved in several decades.

And from that change in public attitudes comes political pressure.

For example, the government which blocked onshore wind in England 5 years ago is now changing its policy on wind turbines.

They have brought forward the ban on petrol and diesel cars from 2040 to 2030.

And are bringing through an Environment Bill with binding targets on limiting biodiversity loss by 2030.

None of it is nearly enough. But it's a start.

www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/opinion/extinction-rebellion-protest-london-boris-johnson-climate-crisis-newspapers-b404981.html

This is the age group who need to apply political pressure: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/30/over-50s-want-climate-crisis-addressed-even-if-it-leads-to-high-prices

[quote Tulipomania]www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/opinion/extinction-rebellion-protest-london-boris-johnson-climate-crisis-newspapers-b404981.html[/quote]
This is very interesting - and of course I think it right as it aligns with what I have been trying to express - they don't want you to like them, they want to be unignorable.

This para in particular: By being the outlandish outriders of the climate emergency, they start to make anything just short of blockading roads to tackle emissions look more acceptable. So, consciously or not, they shift the so-called “Overton window” of policies and approaches to tackling the climate crisis that are acceptable to the public. None of that might happen as quickly or as dramatically as Extinction Rebellion might want, but many other campaigns would look at the way climate change, and public desire to take action on it, has shot up the agenda with real envy.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. (Gandhi) - with XR I guess they are between laugh and fight? They have skipped quite quickly past ignore.

Protest is protest, that's enough IMO.
The world is burning but don't worry, someone is waving a placard while they do yoga. What bloody use is that?

Do people think they are wrong and the climate is not very important?
@lannistunut are you being deliberately obtuse? No one on this thread (or the previous one) has said that climate change is not a serious matter. On the contrary, they are very worried that these people are more likely to turn the public off than get them to change their ways.