to continue to support Extinction Rebellion

[54321nought]

carrying on from the first thread

here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4327567-to-support-extinction-rebellion-more-London-action-tomorrow?msgid=110225062#110225062

So we'll have saved the planet but I'll be homeless.

Is the alternative of 'I'll have a house but the planet will be fucked' actually a better one?

Is there no scenario you can imagine where we restructure how we do things and you are neither homeless nor on a fucked planet?

XR are pointing out the scale of the issue. Governments have the ability to address the issue. They are choosing not to. The electorate is allowing that to continue.

@lannistunut

So we'll have saved the planet but I'll be homeless.

Is the alternative of 'I'll have a house but the planet will be fucked' actually a better one?

Is there no scenario you can imagine where we restructure how we do things and you are neither homeless nor on a fucked planet?

XR are pointing out the scale of the issue. Governments have the ability to address the issue. They are choosing not to. The electorate is allowing that to continue.

I am not certain who to believe in terms of the action needed.

Neither a fucked planet nor homelessness and destitution appeal to me to be honest.

If the worst of what I read about is true, then the entire western capitalist social democratic system will need to be abandoned in favour of something akin to North Korea where central planning is used.

I don't find either outcome appealing. XR are not helping at all.

In what way are XR 'not helping', no point in shooting the messenger.

XR are not to blame for the reality we are going to have to deal with.

@Darker

XR have changed nothing in this respect, though we have seen a few people described by posters upthread who seem to think that going to the odd protest means that they don't have to feel guilty about their three long-haul holidays every year.

You are just pulling out imaginary and extreme examples of hypocrisy and pretending that is evidence that everyone in XR is a hypocrite.

It’s meaningless.

Imaginary? Posters upthread knew them personally.

@lannistunut

In what way are XR 'not helping', no point in shooting the messenger.

XR are not to blame for the reality we are going to have to deal with.

In this context they are a pointless messenger - in fact only making things worse.

Using testimony from strangers on the Internet to justify your position? It’s hearsay. Opinion on opinion.

@DynamoKev

XR are not making anything worse by raising awareness of this issue.

I do accept that awareness of the issue feels 'worse' in the sense it is upsetting, but as with all problems, overcoming denial/ignornance is the first problem.

You are simply shooting the messenger.

They aren't raising awareness of the issue.

@DynamoKev

They aren't raising awareness of the issue.

That is just a really odd thing to say - a high percentage of people have heard fo XR and also, crucially, know what they are campaigning about.

Of course they are raising awareness of the issue. They are being reported on the news, in papers, on social media every day.

But the "issue" isn't unknown - how many of those people already knew about climate change as an issue? There is no shortage of coverage in daily news.
All XR are raising awareness of is XR and their tactics.

@DynamoKev

But the "issue" isn't unknown - how many of those people already knew about climate change as an issue? There is no shortage of coverage in daily news. All XR are raising awareness of is XR and their tactics.

Yes, they are doing precisely that. And doing that brings the issue to the fore again.

They are being visibly extreme, and by being extreme, they are drawing attention to the fact that recycling a few yogurt pots is probably not going to be enough.

DynamoKev its not really possible to separate out every strand of awareness raising because of course people know a bit about climate change but XR have put phrases such as 'climate emergency' into the public consciousness.

@Darker

DynamoKev its not really possible to separate out every strand of awareness raising because of course people know a bit about climate change but XR have put phrases such as 'climate emergency' into the public consciousness.

XR have put phrases such as 'climate emergency' into the public consciousness. In your opinion. Or maybe the use of (for example) that phrase by UNEP, 23 National Governments, many local authorities and The European Parliament (there are many more) has placed it into the "public consciousness" without the need for anyone to glue themselves to anything.

This conversation is just making me feel incredibly stressed. I'm leaving it for today.

@Darker

This conversation is just making me feel incredibly stressed. I'm leaving it for today.

Take care

Or maybe the use of (for example) that phrase by UNEP, 23 National Governments, many local authorities and The European Parliament (there are many more) has placed it into the "public consciousness" without the need for anyone to glue themselves to anything. yeah sure, cos I remember all the media coverage they got.

Like it or not, XR get more news coverage than any other voices.

@lannistunut

Or maybe the use of (for example) that phrase by UNEP, 23 National Governments, many local authorities and The European Parliament (there are many more) has placed it into the "public consciousness" without the need for anyone to glue themselves to anything. yeah sure, cos I remember all the media coverage they got.

Like it or not, XR get more news coverage than any other voices.

I don't agree - in my estimation, those various declarations have received news coverage.

XR get coverage, but it relates to their stunts, not the actual issues.

I don't agree - in my estimation, those various declarations have received news coverage. They did not get 14 days' coverage plus a lot of discussion on social media. They just didn't! At best they got worthy pieces.

Look at this clip from BBC News - only a minute but about the issues, not the stunts at all - as with many other clips I have seen this week, proper reporting secured because of the stunts: twitter.com/ExtinctionR/status/1432489941016223744

As I said, I disagree. XR are not mentioned in the clip you linked to at all. It is a BBC report about the forthcoming Glasgow summit.

@DynamoKev

As I said, I disagree. XR are not mentioned in the clip you linked to at all. It is a BBC report about the forthcoming Glasgow summit.

That's fine. I can;t argue with you all day, but IMo you're deluded if you think that a council passing a motion got the same level of coverage as what has gone on this week in London.

Anyway, XR won't listen to you so you can think whatever you like . They are doing what they are doing and one of the reasons people dislike them is they don't seek my approval or your approval.

Here's the actual kind of coverage they get - all about stunts and court cases

@DynamoKev

Here's the actual kind of coverage they get - all about stunts and court cases

No such thing as bad publicity as they say!

That's fine. I can;t argue with you all day, but IMo you're deluded if you think that a council passing a motion got the same level of coverage as what has gone on this week in London.
That's not what I said, and it's dishonest to represent it as such. I think you are deluded if you think XR are "raising awareness" of anything other than XR stunts.

I don't expect XR or any other protest group to seek "my approval" - what a weird expression. It would be nice if the leadership weren't such self-serving hypocrites - but they are far from alone in that, and it would be good if they didn't do environmental damage in their protests, or didn't prevent people getting medical attention or getting to work, but I don't expect them to get approval from me.
At the same time they can't expect any respect without earning it.

It is circular though @DynamoKev, I agree they get coverage of their stunts, and what evidence there is (public awareness research) is that people are aware of XR and what they want.

There is no evidence that disapproving of the stunts is making people want to damage the planet more.

Lots of people don't like them, my point is this does not matter to them in terms of what they are aiming to do.

People don't like protestors. This is not a new phenomenon.

But it seems unlikely that anything more than a small niche of people would have heard and remembered the use of (for example) that phrase by UNEP, 23 National Governments, many local authorities and The European Parliament.

I may be overly cycnical, but I suspect a big part of the function of XR is to give activists feeling that they are doing something, when the reality is that doing anything about climate change is difficult and most likely involves changes that have to be phased in over years and decades and which don't produce any dramatic changes in the short term.