Leave DSD out of honeymoon holiday

[Honeymare]

My DP and I are getting married next year. Like most people we have been through some tough times with covid and throw in aggressive cancer treatment for me, and losing a parent each.

I am really looking forward now, to the wedding, the marriage, the honeymoon. I have started a new business and starting to feel nearly myself healthwise.

We have been saving for the wedding / honeymoon. I haven't been in a foreign holiday in years, we booked then cancelled at three due to illness then covid came. We are really splashing out on the honeymoon (relative to our own earnings and lifestyle obviously).

We have a 3 year old DC and a 15 year old DSD. DSD comes to us regularly (eow and one or two nights for dinner every week) but not 50%. We always include her in holiday plans but she often changes her mind last minute if she gets a better offer from her mum's side of the family who are extremely wealthy. Anything we plan to do is always met with scorn and open sneering, clearly reiterates from the mum's side of the family. This ranges from something as small as a cake we offer "I only eat really good quality cakes from specialist bakeries" to bigger things. I know she is only mimicking behaviour she's observed but it gets wearing. She has siblings but they are older, have moved out of home and rarely visit.

I get on fine with her but I do find dealing with her stressful. She is not pleased about her younger sibling and will only say hello or goodbye under duress. Otherwise she ignores her completely. We have tried multiple strategies and it's not changing. Her perogative i suppose.

Now to the dilemma.

I don't want to leave DC at home for our honeymoon, she's too young so we have planned two nights in a luxury hotel at home then taking her to a really plush resort with us for two weeks. The trip is costing us a lot. I know it would be one of the few things we do up to DSD's standards and she would probably like to come but it won't feel anything like a honeymoon to me with her there, ignoring her sibling and demanding everything is done her way. I know I will not enjoy it.

And of course there is always the risk she will decide not to come last minute if her other family come up with something more interesting (it's happened before). And its way too much money to lose.

I'm prepared to be told I'm BU to consider going without her and explaining that it's a honeymoon but her sibling is too young to be left at home.

Thoughts please..

YABU your DC is going, its a family holiday, of course invite her
YANBU it's your honeymoon, you should enjoy it

It’s a family holiday not a honeymoon if a child is going. It’s clear you don’t like DSD. You are expecting her father not to see her for 16 nights yet you won’t leave your dc. She acting out because she’s feeling pushed out.
Personally I’d just have short child free honeymoon. If you want a 2 week holiday you need to invite her. It would probably do family dynamics world of good to spend time together.

I think you would be very wrong to take your 3 year old and leave the 15 year old out of the picture.

In your shoes I would cut the 'honeymoon' back to a week and leave both children at home. 3 is plenty old enough to be left for a week.

We left our dd, age 3, with grandparents for 5 days for our honeymoon. As much as I adore my DD It certainly wouldn't have felt like a honeymoon with her there. We were able to stay in a little remote hotel in Italy and properly relax. Absolutely wasn't a child friendly holiday but I do not regret having that time just us as newlyweds.

I understand your childcare situation but I really think you should try to go just the two of you or you will have to take them both. I think if you're already having problems with her feeling pushed out, this would only make the situation worse.

What's your relationship like with her mum? If it's amicable could your DH speak to her and explain and see what she says? Also, speak to your step daughter. She might even say she doesn't want to go

I totally agree that if you marry a man with DC, you need to fully accept those DC into your life.

A honeymoon is completely different though. You would be leaving the 3 year old if you had other childcare options. Unfortunately, you don’t have options so have to take them with you. That doesn’t mean that a 15 year old who is perfectly able to stay with her mum needs to come on your honeymoon too.

Book your honeymoon for term time, and explain that it was cheaper etc. Do something nice in the UK with your DSD at another time.

It’s your HONEYMOON!! Of course you shouldn’t take her. A 3 year old vs a 15 year old is so different, one is a fully formed human who will eat dinner with you every night and kill the romance and the other is a toddler who will spend most of the time at the resort child care. I agree just play down the loveliness of it, say you’re going on honeymoon and unfortunately can’t find childcare for young DC so have booked somewhere with full time resort nursery. It’s not a family holiday it’s your honeymoon plus unavoidable presence of youngest child.

I don't know what your relationship is like, or if she is close to her dad but perhaps if she was sat down and told that she is invited but only if she can behave in a reasonable manner, not be rude or sneery or ignore her sister and she is absolutely not able to back out once it's booked.

It's difficult because most 15 year olds are horrid (I know I was). But I think it is important to involve her in this. She may even say something along the lines of 'urgh why would I want to go on your honeymoon' which would be problem solved, wouldn't it?

Rubbish.

The 3 year old can't be left
The 15 year old can be left with her mum

The 3 yo can go into childcare, the 15 year old cannot

The 3 yo doesn't have a horrible attitude....

The 3 year old doesn't have anxiety about having been replaced.

All that bad behaviour sounds like she has low self esteem and is desperately trying to prove she's good enough because 'she only eats the best cake' etc. I wouldn't risk her self esteem for a nice holiday and I don't think your DH should even be considering it just to please you TBH.

There's only a few more years till she's 18, I'd put her first for now, tell her you'd love her to come and make her feel special and properly part of the family, just be clear it's very special and expensive and so she will need to be fully committed. I bet it'll do wonders for her self esteem to feel valued.

Would her MOTHER take her on her honeymoon if she remarried? Or did she if she has remarried?

I doubt it very much that her mother would choose to do so so you should feel any guilt at all.

And if the DSC make a fuss I’d be blunt and ask the adult siblings why they didn’t offer to look after their youngest sibling so dad and you could have a honeymoon.

I can see both sides of this. I think, on balance, you might be being unreasonable but I can absolutely understand why.

I probably wouldn’t want to take any children, let alone a surly 15 year old, on my honeymoon. I understand that you feel the 3 year old is too young to leave, though I really think if you wanted to, you probably could. I left my DD with my parents for 2 weeks for a work related course that was more or less mandatory. She had a whale of a time. I suppose it depends on the child and some will have not spent much time away from parents due to the pandemic.

However, I also think that if you marry after having children, the honeymoon is almost certainly going to be a bit different to the traditional honeymoon as you have other considerations and responsibilities. And if you are taking one child (even with childcare options- you might find your DC does not settle well, for instance), then it is even less like a traditional honeymoon. More like a family celebration.

I know your step-daughter is not behaving well. But, as you say you believe this to be coming from a place of anxiety and unhappiness, there appear to be reasons- though not an excuse- for this. So, what you do depends on whether you really believe she will be hurt. Do you, in your heart of hearts, believe that not inviting her (with strict rules- she cannot back out last minute, for instance) is going to cause her to feel hurt, left out/rejected etc? Or do you think it won’t cause her any upset at all?

If you do believe that it may cause longer term hurt to her and therefore there is a risk of harm to her relationship with her father, with you and with her sibling, then I think you need to take cognisance of that. Personally, then I think it would be extremely unwise to ignore that belief because your short-term gain (a DSD-free, and therefore more enjoyable, holiday) may come at the cost of the longer-term ability to improve relations with your DSD and between the half-siblings. If it does cause sufficient hurt, it may set you all up for years, or even a lifetime, of difficult relations. It may damage your STBDH’s relationship with his daughter. Only your and your fiancé can decide if the nice honeymoon outweighs these longer term considerations. For me, they would. I think I would also struggle a little to enjoy myself if I really thought I was causing hurt to my partners child and storing up trouble later down the line.

However, if you honestly and truly believe (not just hope/wish or would like to think- but absolutely are sure) that your DSD would not be put up nor down by not being invited, then that is a totally different situation and I would happily go without her.

I personally would be concerned that my partner, if he really believes his daughter will be hurt by being left out, is happy to do so to appease you. How would you feel if he did something similar to your DD in the future (obviously, I hope that would never be a possibility- but you see where I am coming from). It might only be over this wedding/honeymoon- but what message does that send to his daughter? And how will she know it is only about this specific situation (if it is)? Do you think it is likely to improve or worsen her feelings of insecurity about her place in her father’s priorities?

I genuinely think your DH (with your support) should have been trying to address the issues within your blended family- if he hasn’t already- so that your DSD does not feel so insecure that she can barely bring herself to speak to her younger sibling. I mean, unless she is exceptionally horrible person (and I’d be reluctant to ascribe that to a 15 year old- they can all be horrors, frankly), then that is almost certainly coming from a place of deep unhappiness/anxiety/insecurity. That’s not to say she cannot be brought to task for her behaviour, but she probably also needs some help too.

In short, you need to think about the longer-term impact of your choices.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

To those who are saying both should go....how would that look when dc2 is in the kids club? Dc1 just going to hang around with a pair of newlyweds?

But they’re already a family, they already have a three year old together. The notion of a ‘Honeymoon’, or ‘ newlyweds’ at this stage is pretty bizarre. It’s a luxury holiday to celebrate the fact that you just celebrated finally making a legal transaction. It doesn’t mark a new beginning or commitment, that happened when you had a child together. Unsurprisingly it’s not as easy to swan off alone to the Maldives or wherever when you already have kids. Who knew.

This is not a family holiday it's a honeymoon. I agree with booking in term time.

Also, If you had two kids with your partner, a 3 yo and a 15 yo, I suspect you would leave the 15 yo at home with family, and take the little one as it's not fair to leave a tiny child for so long. You're pussy footing around this brat because you dont want to be the wicked stepmother.

So. Don't take the moody 15 year old who sneers at your life and ignores your 3 year old. (Three YEARS and your DSD is still behaving like a jealous baby about having a little sister? PLEASE.). She would need a room to herself, it would cost loads more.

Tell her it is a romantic honeymoon, the three yo will be in childcare clubs a lot, and she will be alone and bored. Instead, plan a slightly cheaper version of your honeymoon, and take DSD away on a family holiday or weekend away, as soon as you reasonably can to celebrate together.

I have very spoilt nephews whose relatives on their mum's side are very pretentious. It makes life really awkward. For example, the eldest announced age 10 that "he only stays in 5 star hotels" (just after I told him I had booked a family holiday for us all at a fabulous waterpark but staying in quite a rubbish holiday home, definitely only 2*). He was thoughtless but didnt mean to he rude. At 15 however your DSD should know better than to belittle you for your lack of showy wealth. This needs to be addressed for what it is - rude and unpleasant and spoilt. Her dad needs to tackle that. It's a separate issue from the honeymoon though.

Surely it's a holiday rebranded as a honeymoon to justify not inviting her if other DC is going?

I would struggle to have a child there who was unpleasant and rude (ignoring them etc) to my other child, especially to a much younger child.

Book in term time.

Invite the older child but lay down the rules.

• They must not cancel last minute - there will be financial consequences to this, missed pocket money/allowance, etc (not maintenance money to their mother, but direct money to the teenager)

T hey must not be rude to your other child, their half sibling. They are to be treated nicely, and you need to see evidence of this now too.

• Your younger child will be in childcare for x hours for x days. Your step child should also expect to be using the kids\teen club during these times.

I personally wouldn't choose to leave a young child at home for so long, so I understand why you aren't doing this. The older child is a different matter and can be left easier with their own parent. However, I would incite them but only under set out rules which they have to agree to.

@Peacrock Congratulations. Have my very first

@Peacrock

Surely it's a holiday rebranded as a honeymoon to justify not inviting her if other DC is going?

The 15 year old is not the newly wedded couple's child though. She already has a mum and presumably goes on lots of holidays that her half sister doesn't go on.

[quote DoubleTweenQueen]@Peacrock Congratulations. Have my very first [/quote]
Thank you hun.

I wouldn't take the 15 year old, her condescending attitude would be grating at the best of times, I would have this time to enjoy yourselves and not have her ignoring your toddler and sneering at everything you do, if she doesn't cancel for a better offer.

It is a honeymoon. You can't leave the 3 year old behind with a parent as both parents are on the bloody honeymoon.

You can leave a 15 year old behind with her Mother. This isn't a family holiday it is a honeymoon.

It isn't like the 15 and 3 year old dote on each other. The way to enjoy your honeymoon is to just take the 3 year old and make use of as much childcare as possible.

I am sorry that you have had a shit time with cancer and the loss of a parent each life is too short to have this honeymoon ruined by a stroppy teen.

I think either both children should be invited or neither.

She’s your partner’s daughter and at 15 she is still well within the normal age range for going on holiday with her family. He should treat both of his children the same.

Not only would picking and choosing between his children be unfair, it has the potential to damage their relationship. That’s just not something I’d risk.

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding. I hope you find a solution that is fair for everyone.

@Claypotkitchentable

I wouldn’t hesitate to leave your step daughter at home. When my husband and I married we didn’t even have his two year old son at the wedding. The day was about us, not any children. He also didn’t come with us on honeymoon. I also don’t think you should have to take your step daughter with you every time you go on holiday. As such, you should be able to go on honeymoon without her. We compromised by taking my stepson with us on holiday every other time we went, so one year he would holiday with his mum and the next year with us. It worked really well. If I were you I would play the honeymoon down and not invite her. I wouldn’t even contemplate the risk of her having a face on her all holiday. You will only do this once.

Did you take your other children? That’s the issue here.

A daughter who is acting out because she’s struggling, not being given the option of going on a family holiday.

What’s the relationship like between DH/DSD?

I ask because my friend was in this situation except it wasn’t a honeymoon.

After wearing him down, DF, her DH and joint child went away leaving his DD. He spent x2 weeks moping and wouldn’t join in anything because DD was missing out.

Holiday ruined.

So there can be wider considerations with such decisions.

It’s a bit of a tough one, usually with BF holidays my position is DH should stay home rather chose/exclude some of his kids to go on hol with.

@SoupDragon FGS, people marry, have kids, divorce, go on to have other children. It’s a fact of life.
Not being the centre of attention, dealing with additional siblings for your parent’s attention and affection is normal. Including half brothers & sisters. It’s not the end of anyone’s world.

The more important thing here would be the attitude the older daughter is fostering and possibly being allowed to foster but her family - that is what’s corrosive and damaging her ongoing relationship with her father and her half-sister, not the fact of her half-sister existing or being just 3.

Real life is a continual set of unpleasant circumstances that take ongoing maturity and support to navigate, particularly for a young teen. It would serve her better into her adulthood rather than fostering a feeling of rejection or victimisation.
I honestly wonder where the grownups have disappeared to on this forum.

There's a lot going on here.

I'm sorry you've been so ill and have had to endure horrible treatment. It sounds to me as if the whole wedding, and especially the honeymoon, is very much tied up in that promise of better times ahead - your 'reward' for coming through that awful time. And of course you deserve a lovely time after all that.

But I do think this is where things get tricky - the intertwinement of that wish of yours with complex family relationships. In all honesty, I see a 'honeymoon' in a relationship where there's already a shared life and children - which the marriage is only formalising - as a little out of place, especially when a young child is going along too. I also agree that a 3yo is too young to be left, but she may well also be too young to be put in kids' clubs for extended periods (or simply not like it/want to spend time with her parents etc). It does seem to me that the experience may not be what you are longing for even without the DSD issues. And I do think leaving her out has the potential to do massive damage. 12 is not an easy age to acquire a half-sibling your father lives with full-time. It may well be that her snobbery (which I think she does need a gentle but direct chat about, btw) has something to do with pushing down uncomfortable feelings of being on the outside/having been replaced, and convincing herself as well as everyone else that she's still OK in life. So - even though you've had an incredibly tough time - I don't think it entitles you to put that kind of strain on your relationship with her and hers with her father.

If it were me? I'm sorry to say I'd give up the whole idea. I'd fill me need for self-care by having a long weekend somewhere lovely with a close friend (while your dd stays at home with her father). I'd have a lovely wedding, the two hotel nights (is childcare in place for those?) and then a nice family holiday at an appropriate time, and save some of the resort budget for a big holiday when both the children are older.