Leave DSD out of honeymoon holiday

[Honeymare]

My DP and I are getting married next year. Like most people we have been through some tough times with covid and throw in aggressive cancer treatment for me, and losing a parent each.

I am really looking forward now, to the wedding, the marriage, the honeymoon. I have started a new business and starting to feel nearly myself healthwise.

We have been saving for the wedding / honeymoon. I haven't been in a foreign holiday in years, we booked then cancelled at three due to illness then covid came. We are really splashing out on the honeymoon (relative to our own earnings and lifestyle obviously).

We have a 3 year old DC and a 15 year old DSD. DSD comes to us regularly (eow and one or two nights for dinner every week) but not 50%. We always include her in holiday plans but she often changes her mind last minute if she gets a better offer from her mum's side of the family who are extremely wealthy. Anything we plan to do is always met with scorn and open sneering, clearly reiterates from the mum's side of the family. This ranges from something as small as a cake we offer "I only eat really good quality cakes from specialist bakeries" to bigger things. I know she is only mimicking behaviour she's observed but it gets wearing. She has siblings but they are older, have moved out of home and rarely visit.

I get on fine with her but I do find dealing with her stressful. She is not pleased about her younger sibling and will only say hello or goodbye under duress. Otherwise she ignores her completely. We have tried multiple strategies and it's not changing. Her perogative i suppose.

Now to the dilemma.

I don't want to leave DC at home for our honeymoon, she's too young so we have planned two nights in a luxury hotel at home then taking her to a really plush resort with us for two weeks. The trip is costing us a lot. I know it would be one of the few things we do up to DSD's standards and she would probably like to come but it won't feel anything like a honeymoon to me with her there, ignoring her sibling and demanding everything is done her way. I know I will not enjoy it.

And of course there is always the risk she will decide not to come last minute if her other family come up with something more interesting (it's happened before). And its way too much money to lose.

I'm prepared to be told I'm BU to consider going without her and explaining that it's a honeymoon but her sibling is too young to be left at home.

Thoughts please..

YABU your DC is going, its a family holiday, of course invite her
YANBU it's your honeymoon, you should enjoy it

At 15 years old, she is old enough for you to sit down together and have an adult conversation regarding her behaviour past and present, and discuss with her your dilemma/concerns. Make it very clear that it is down to her to prove that she can be relied on before she can be included in any events like this.

However, personally I would state quite clearly, honeymoon, and not include her making it clear that other child is being catered for by childcare in the resort.

Lets be honest the original post was written to not feel the DSD should go.

Is it right that the father of two children chooses to take one on his honeymoon and not the other - then the answer is no.

All or none.

OP I think we know the answer - that she will not be invited. The repurcussions of that will be both yours and her fathers to deal with going forward. A child who felt pushed out by the arrival of a new baby at the age of 12, is undoubtedly going to see this as further re inforcement of her feelings that she is being pushed out and not part of the new family.

I wish you luck - would have preferred if your original post had been more neutral with regards to your DSD - you painted a picture of a not nice child which has distorted peoples thinking. It is irrelevant what holidays she has with her mother and family - this is about her fathers family and your current plan shows her she is not as important as your 3 year old.

@rookiemere

Oh wow so people think the 15 year old shouldn't be invited because she behaves like a 15 year old. I'd love to exclude DS15 from family holidays for the same reason but we don't get that option .

Your DP should be the one sticking up for his own DD, sad that he isn't. A honeymoon is traditionally the first holiday that a married couple take together as a couple so with a 3 yr old in tow it's somewhat disingenuous to call it that.

If you must go without her do it in term time so at least there's a valid excuse.

It is not a family holiday, though. It's a honeymoon. There is a world of difference which any 15 year old can well understand.

This is so difficult. I'd love to say that you should go without her, but this is likely to really upset her and lead her to resent you and her sister which will cause you more problems long term.

I think her Dad needs to have an honest conversation with her and ask if she really wants to go and be clear that once it's booked and paid for, there's no changing her mind. Have you been on holiday with her before? She may be different when she's away - is she the type to make friends or go off and do water sports? If she's likely to just want to sit in her room and look at her phone, then I think it's fine for her Dad to be honest and explain there's nothing there for her, but he will make it up to her by booking days out to places she enjoys.

Could you maybe compromise and do a week for your honeymoon and another week later somewhere else?

It is not a family holiday, though. It's a honeymoon. There is a world of difference which any 15 year old can well understand

Yes I agree if both weren’t going but taking a three year old suddenly makes it a family trip. Honeymoons are just the two adults.

You're far too nice if you feel waves of guilt over not taking her. Reading your original post has made me rage on your behalf that you have to put up with such awful, disrespectful behaviour. She's clearly been terribly raised and is old enough to be aware that her behaviour is bratty, inconsiderate and awful. Hormonal as she may be at her age, and anxious as she may be in her circumstances, that is nevertheless not an excuse to treat other people (include your own DD) like s**t. Do you think she feels bad over the vile way that she behaves towards her dad's new family?

Leaver her. Actions have consequences, and she's not wanted on this holiday as a result of her horrid disposition. You're not her mother, and she's not your responsibility. She certainly doesn't deserve to have all this money spent on her when she chooses to behave the way she does. She won't appreciate the holiday and she'll just ruin it for you and everybody else. If she wants a luxury holiday, then her mother/father (your husband) can take her separately, without you and your daughter, at another point in time.

I mean where do you draw the line? You say she has older siblings - should they also be invited, because they might feel anxiety over their dad getting re-married?!

You also say you worry about relations with her becoming strained. I can only foresee that taking her on this honeymoon (where you'll be trying to enjoy an expensive holiday whilst being lumped with her and her awful attitude for two weeks) will possibly strain relations more than if she were just left at home with her own biological mother.

If she does react poorly to not joining you, that's an entirely unreasonable reaction on her part. Be selfish - it's your honeymoon & it's your money. Do what you want to do.

It's not just a holiday is it. If it was it might be ok but it's a milestone event. Something the older one will get.

It's a very fancy trip that likely won't be repeated.

Each of these separately -
The argument to take 3yo is valid - no childcare/ clubs at the resort

The argument to leave 15 yo is valid. Moody difficult might back out last minute

It's not the right thing to do though. The message this gives to the older one will speak volumes to her.

I say.
Make it a week, leave them both at home. Enjoy a honey moon as it's intended. You can get away with taking just the little one on a low key family holiday. But not this.

Could you invite her but offer a cash alternative if she doesn't think it's for her, so that she can attend a festival with friends next year, or have a holiday with her friends after her GCSEs? I'd approach it as really, really wanting her to come with you but if she thinks it looks boring you'll give her the cost of the holiday (or whatever is appropriate). I bet she takes the cash.

Don't take either. Otherwise you're being really unfair

There is absolutely no way I would take her in these circumstances. Ideally I wouldn't take either child as the honeymoon should be for you. But if you can't leave the 3 year old then I would personally just explain it to her as the honeymoon is for you two, it's just not possible to leave a child of that age. Don't let the discussion become too emotive.

@LobotomisedIceSkatingFan

I don't see why the fact that the holiday is more luxurious should be a tick in the box of why the fifteen year old should be allowed to go: a deluxe holiday hasn't made her historic behaviour any less unpalatable. She's not living in deprivation, ffs, and this represents her one shot at a nice time. She's had plenty of fab holidays and it doesn't seem to have improved her outlook any. Why should she be allowed to shit on this one?

Her being deprived of nice things doesn't mean she is actually getting the attention that she does need, like feeling loved. The stately home threads show this very well.

As someone else said, give it another 15 years, maybe less, and this kid will be on here asking if she is unreasonable about her step mother clearly not liking her (because she will know this already), and being excluded on holidays, and this isn't a honeymoon, it's a fancy holiday they are trying to call a honeymoon. If the daughter came on here with her side, I'd bet the op would be called a lot of names by posters on here who are currently supporting her.

The 3 year old can't be left. The 15 year old can be left with her mum. The 3 yo can go into childcare, the 15 year old cannot.The 3 yo doesn't have a horrible attitude....

But the thing is you have the children that you have. Can you really pick and choose which ones you hang out with based on how annoying they are?

I completely understand why you don't want to take her (I wouldn't either!) and with your health issues you want to go on a lovely holiday with your DH and DD. But you don't only have one child...

I have a much younger sibling. If my parents had jetted off on holiday with him and left me at home because I was a pain in the arse I'd be gutted. And she will be gutted too, no matter how you dress it up.

If you are going somewhere that is reasonably family friendly, which I assume it is as taking your toddler, then you can't really argue it is a honeymoon as such as you are taking a child. It becomes a family holiday, even if a very fancy never to be repeated family holiday.

If it was me:
1- no teenagers allowed on my honeymoon (irrelevant of behaviour or parentage)
2- l’d leave 3yo with family.

I left my 2yo for 2 weeks, one week with each granny for my honeymoon.

But if you can’t leave 3 yo for that long, can you look at a shorter holiday?
If not, I’d take the 3yo. It’s your honeymoon.
15yo would look a bit stupid complaining about going on her dads honeymoon just because a 3yo going.

@Honeymare

It’s primarily your Honeymoon.
It would normally and ideally be child-free - you are unable to achieve this so next best thing is to take little one and use childcare at your nice resort, so at least you will get child-free enjoyment for at least half a day.
I don’t see why you should also take older DD because you’re having to take the little one.

I would think there will be other opportunities for you to have whole family holidays.

But this is primarily your honeymoon. Go - enjoy. Do not entertain any level of guilt. It’s unnecessary - truly.

I’ve been the young dsd when my parents remarried and we wouldn’t have dreamed of joining them on their honeymoon.

Congratulations, and every happiness for the future - for all of you

I'd do the term time option.
But other than that I wouldn't share the exact details. Make it boring for children, they have a great children's club for little children and me and dad will be doing lots of (insert things she'd hate) so when we get back we three will go to a theme park etc without dc.

Make it a done deal that she's not coming because she wouldn't want to go, as per previous holiday offerings. And sweeten it with an activity suitable to her age and leave dc with gp to make it special.

I wouldn't leave my 3yo for 2 weeks. And I completely understand why you don't want to take the 15yo.

In your position, annoying as it is, I would postpone the big fancy honeymoon until your DC is old enough to be left for 10 days (say age 6/7?)

For now, I’d go to the fanciest hotel I could find in the UK/France for 3 or 4 days and leave both kids behind.

We’ve had to postpone our fancy honeymoon due to covid, it’s not the end of the world.

I think you have to rethink your entire honeymoon. This is what happens when you have step kids and then have your own before you get married. You've already said she feels displaced by her sibling, and this will only make it worse.

DP's preferences are no children, both children, one child only

And your preference is clearly one child only, no children, both children?

but seems primarily focused on making me happy.

and you seem to be primarily focused on making you happy too, where is your focus on making your DP happy by choosing his 3rd preference of excluding his dd? It is his wedding and honeymoon too.

She's clearly been terribly raised and is old enough to be aware that her behaviour is bratty, inconsiderate and awful. Hormonal as she may be at her age, and anxious as she may be in her circumstances, that is nevertheless not an excuse to treat other people (include your own DD) like st. Do you think she feels bad over the vile way that she behaves towards her dad's new family?

Just going to point out, her dad helped raise her, who the op has had a kid with, so that doesn't really bode well for ops child does it?

Think it's more likely she is acting out more because the split happened when she was young, whereas her siblings were older so handled it better. Throw in a batch of teenage hormones now and you're up shit creek. Problem is, we don't know how op and the dad are handling that, it doesn't sound great. She needs to know she is loved, throwing money at the problem solves nothing but it's what her mum is doing. Excluding her when she already feels excluded is just going to make everything worse.

But it will no doubt happen anyway and it will be another messed up kid.

@AlmostSummer21

Because it’s not a honeymoon if they’re taking the little one, it’s a family holiday which they aren’t offering the older daughter a chance to go on.

She’s old enough to have the responsibility of being given the choice, including if you want to come, you will be coming. There is no backing out or changing your mind once it’s booked.

YANBU

It’s your honeymoon - you don’t need unnecessary stress. Book during term time and don’t say anything to her about it until just before you go.

I wouldn’t hesitate to leave your step daughter at home. When my husband and I married we didn’t even have his two year old son at the wedding. The day was about us, not any children. He also didn’t come with us on honeymoon.
I also don’t think you should have to take your step daughter with you every time you go on holiday. As such, you should be able to go on honeymoon without her.
We compromised by taking my stepson with us on holiday every other time we went, so one year he would holiday with his mum and the next year with us. It worked really well.
If I were you I would play the honeymoon down and not invite her. I wouldn’t even contemplate the risk of her having a face on her all holiday. You will only do this once.

Under the circumstances you have described I wouldn't invite her.