Leave DSD out of honeymoon holiday

[Honeymare]

My DP and I are getting married next year. Like most people we have been through some tough times with covid and throw in aggressive cancer treatment for me, and losing a parent each.

I am really looking forward now, to the wedding, the marriage, the honeymoon. I have started a new business and starting to feel nearly myself healthwise.

We have been saving for the wedding / honeymoon. I haven't been in a foreign holiday in years, we booked then cancelled at three due to illness then covid came. We are really splashing out on the honeymoon (relative to our own earnings and lifestyle obviously).

We have a 3 year old DC and a 15 year old DSD. DSD comes to us regularly (eow and one or two nights for dinner every week) but not 50%. We always include her in holiday plans but she often changes her mind last minute if she gets a better offer from her mum's side of the family who are extremely wealthy. Anything we plan to do is always met with scorn and open sneering, clearly reiterates from the mum's side of the family. This ranges from something as small as a cake we offer "I only eat really good quality cakes from specialist bakeries" to bigger things. I know she is only mimicking behaviour she's observed but it gets wearing. She has siblings but they are older, have moved out of home and rarely visit.

I get on fine with her but I do find dealing with her stressful. She is not pleased about her younger sibling and will only say hello or goodbye under duress. Otherwise she ignores her completely. We have tried multiple strategies and it's not changing. Her perogative i suppose.

Now to the dilemma.

I don't want to leave DC at home for our honeymoon, she's too young so we have planned two nights in a luxury hotel at home then taking her to a really plush resort with us for two weeks. The trip is costing us a lot. I know it would be one of the few things we do up to DSD's standards and she would probably like to come but it won't feel anything like a honeymoon to me with her there, ignoring her sibling and demanding everything is done her way. I know I will not enjoy it.

And of course there is always the risk she will decide not to come last minute if her other family come up with something more interesting (it's happened before). And its way too much money to lose.

I'm prepared to be told I'm BU to consider going without her and explaining that it's a honeymoon but her sibling is too young to be left at home.

Thoughts please..

YABU your DC is going, its a family holiday, of course invite her
YANBU it's your honeymoon, you should enjoy it

For what it's worth I think you are being fair and kind considering all of the implications even though you know what you would really prefer to do.

I can see that in some ways you can't win at all here, but you are giving some ground rules of what the holiday would need to be like for everybody to enjoy it and then standing back to see if her behaviour improves prior to booking.

But in many ways I can't help but think you would be better off completely changing the whole dynamic to a few days of "proper" honeymoon with your new husband on your own followed by a less exclusive family holiday for everyone.

If both children are coming on a sunshine holiday what were you planning room wise? Under normal circumstances you would have a room and another adjoining room for the 3 year old and 15 year old to share presumably?

It's difficult with the age differences and the stroppy teenager vibes of a fifteen year old, then put the blended family and lack of civility to the younger child who is now picking up on it all. It's not striking me as happy "family moon" situation at all. Therefore, perhaps better to not actually aim for one but a lower key family holiday.

Either it's a family holiday in which case she comes, or it's your honey moon and you explain she isn't invited, and preferably have a Frank conversation with her mum so that you can all have a united approach on what you need to do to make it less harsh on her.

I would take either

@LAgeDeRaisin

Honestly OP just don't take her. Book during school holidays if that's easier.

You are important too, and not everything in life has to revolve around children. The 3 year old coming is unavoidable. Don't make it about DSDs behaviour or the sibling relationship, or anything else. Just say you're going on your honeymoon, and if she asks why 3yo is coming and not her you can tell her the truth, which is that you have no childcare for the 3yo so it's unavoidable.

Ignore all the comments implying you're a bad person, stop overthinking it, and enjoy your honeymoon.

This by far far this ^

It's not a honeymoon if you have kids with you. It's a family holiday.

Try not to think of it as a honeymoon as such and that might help lessen the stress of it all.

@Falleybollolo

Either it's a family holiday in which case she comes, or it's your honey moon and you explain she isn't invited, and preferably have a Frank conversation with her mum so that you can all have a united approach on what you need to do to make it less harsh on her.

Mum will be no help here unfortunately, quite the opposite. We have learned this the hard way.

Op has fought off cancer (and had photos/video taken of her at her lowest ebb to be used against her) she’s lost her mum and had absolutely bugger all in the way of kindness or consideration, her little toddler daughter is showing signs that the cruelty of this dsd is now affecting her.

If @Honeymare wants to call it her honeymoon and from necessity take their toddler, given all the above, I’d say firmly that she’s earned the right to call it, book it and enjoy it however the fuck she likes

Nobody is entitled to a holiday, not kids, not step kids.

Dsd is getting 1-2-1 time with her dad, and given her treatment of his wife during what could have been a terminal illness, I’d say that is about the most expected of dp/op.

Time to change the narrative @Honeymare, start this next phase of your life as you mean to go on. Stop allowing others to treat you and your family like shit.

Dsd has parents, her mum takes her away, or not, no issue, then no issue from your side either.

Just book it in term time - it’ll be quieter and cheaper too.

You owe no explanation nor excuse and certainly no compensation holiday!

@friendlycat you might be right about going for a completely different vibe. We have been talking about it a good bit today. We can't have them share a room no.

@MzHz
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[quote Youseethethingis]@MzHz
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Thanks so much for this.

Actually @MzHz has really hit the nail on the head.

Having thought you were being very considerate in your thinking this all through, yes perhaps it is time that you thought of yourself.

If your DSD cannot behave sufficiently well around your younger child does she actually deserve to be included on this honeymoon/holiday?

Perhaps a complete rethink of the whole thing is for the best.

Op
Did you share with your fiance how your dsd behaved whilst you were enduring chemotherapy?

[quote Youseethethingis]@MzHz
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Seconded, brilliant comment!

I continue to go back to the fiancé in this scenario because really it’s him I’m most concerned about (not concern for him. ABOUT him).

He seems to be very much floating in the background. As his daughter, very regular at his house, behaves abysmally to his toddler daughter. And what the op has told us re his daughters behaviour during chemotherapy is… truly unpleasant.

And yet… he’s happy to follow whatever the op wants for the honeymoon (cop out, when clearly it is causing the op much angst working out what to do) and the fact he

* DF is trying to handle it, he is extremely involved but truth be told a little bit lost on what to do. He does insist she say hello, goodbye, ask for a hug goodnight but pushing seems to make it worse. *

Just about made me feel nauseous. He scratches around the surface and allows such awful behaviour

Op - your focus is wrong. It’s about the honeymoon.

I think it should be about the marriage

This is so common in dads with new partners though. If they don't Disney Dad on their access days the kid won't come any more. Especially at 15. Looks like the older ones bailed and don't bother unless something material is in it for them, so this is the last child from his previous marriage that he has regular access to. He needs to sort this out, don't get me wrong, but it isn't an unusual stance.

@Marni83

Op Did you share with your fiance how your dsd behaved whilst you were enduring chemotherapy?

Which part? He witnessed most of it.

And what did he do op?

His desperate ill wife being treated like this. Recorded!!

@ToykotoLosAngeles

This is so common in dads with new partners though. If they don't Disney Dad on their access days the kid won't come any more. Especially at 15. Looks like the older ones bailed and don't bother unless something material is in it for them, so this is the last child from his previous marriage that he has regular access to. He needs to sort this out, don't get me wrong, but it isn't an unusual stance.

Yes And the wives of this kind of man dominate the Step parenting threads on mumsnet

@Marni83

I continue to go back to the fiancé in this scenario because really it’s him I’m most concerned about (not concern for him. ABOUT him).

He seems to be very much floating in the background. As his daughter, very regular at his house, behaves abysmally to his toddler daughter. And what the op has told us re his daughters behaviour during chemotherapy is… truly unpleasant.

And yet… he’s happy to follow whatever the op wants for the honeymoon (cop out, when clearly it is causing the op much angst working out what to do) and the fact he

* DF is trying to handle it, he is extremely involved but truth be told a little bit lost on what to do. He does insist she say hello, goodbye, ask for a hug goodnight but pushing seems to make it worse. *

Just about made me feel nauseous. He scratches around the surface and allows such awful behaviour

Op - your focus is wrong. It’s about the honeymoon.

I think it should be about the marriage

Mmm I reread this post and I agree to some extent actually (although I dislike saying that because of what OP has gone through)

The behaviour after chemo and how DD is being treated us cruel (and lasting implications- was in DD shoes and boy it left marks) but as a parent I would genuinely be heartbroken if my DH didn't step in. I suspect he's trying to make amends by the honeymoon thing.

If it wasn't a blended family, this behaviour one would hope wouldn't be accepted or fobbed off right ? If you want SC to be treated as one of the family that means not putting them in the cellar and not elevating them to the god like status. Everyone is equal and treated with kindness.

OP seems absolutely torn into pieces over this and I think that's what I'm finding so sad about this, because there's bad behaviour and excusing that behaviour after chemo.

@MzHz post was spot on. Op for the love of god please please go on honeymoon and do not worry about this. Chances are she wouldn't be fussed other than missing out on going to a nice place. She's not approaching it from a I want to be part of the family, she's approaching it from a what can I get from this.

She may you never know with age and time get better (teenagers aren't the most empathic creatures in the world) but empathy is a taught emotion. You can't teach her this.

You have been through enough, don't keep tying yourself in notts for someone that literally wouldn't lift a bucket of water to put out a fire that was consuming you.

@Marni83

And what did he do op?

His desperate ill wife being treated like this. Recorded!!

He wanted to confront her immediately when I told him but I stopped him. I was feeling intensely vulnerable, people on the street generally didn't recognise me and then would be visibly shocked by my appearance. It was horrendous and I was not emotionally up to the argument between them and her crying or denying it. He was furious but respected my decision.

I wouldn't invite either, but inviting yours and not his isn't right.

And all the rest of the appalling behaviour whilst you were receiving treatment?

He's not doing nothing, he doesn't know what to do. A counsellor advised us to ask for nothing beyond civility so we are trying that. Other attempts (there have been numerous strategies) have failed.

Op you really don’t see how your dh really is leaving you to it

Leaving you to decide re the honeymoon. He says he just wants you to be happy. Can’t you see that given how preoccupied and anxious you are about it - this is a cop out
Plus means you are bad cop if you don’t invite.

And then the treatment of his toddler daughter. Over years. And she comes over a during the week for dinner and stays over EOW. And he stands for dd2 to be treated like this.

It’s really… sickening actually

And he regards this as civility?