Leave DSD out of honeymoon holiday

[Honeymare]

My DP and I are getting married next year. Like most people we have been through some tough times with covid and throw in aggressive cancer treatment for me, and losing a parent each.

I am really looking forward now, to the wedding, the marriage, the honeymoon. I have started a new business and starting to feel nearly myself healthwise.

We have been saving for the wedding / honeymoon. I haven't been in a foreign holiday in years, we booked then cancelled at three due to illness then covid came. We are really splashing out on the honeymoon (relative to our own earnings and lifestyle obviously).

We have a 3 year old DC and a 15 year old DSD. DSD comes to us regularly (eow and one or two nights for dinner every week) but not 50%. We always include her in holiday plans but she often changes her mind last minute if she gets a better offer from her mum's side of the family who are extremely wealthy. Anything we plan to do is always met with scorn and open sneering, clearly reiterates from the mum's side of the family. This ranges from something as small as a cake we offer "I only eat really good quality cakes from specialist bakeries" to bigger things. I know she is only mimicking behaviour she's observed but it gets wearing. She has siblings but they are older, have moved out of home and rarely visit.

I get on fine with her but I do find dealing with her stressful. She is not pleased about her younger sibling and will only say hello or goodbye under duress. Otherwise she ignores her completely. We have tried multiple strategies and it's not changing. Her perogative i suppose.

Now to the dilemma.

I don't want to leave DC at home for our honeymoon, she's too young so we have planned two nights in a luxury hotel at home then taking her to a really plush resort with us for two weeks. The trip is costing us a lot. I know it would be one of the few things we do up to DSD's standards and she would probably like to come but it won't feel anything like a honeymoon to me with her there, ignoring her sibling and demanding everything is done her way. I know I will not enjoy it.

And of course there is always the risk she will decide not to come last minute if her other family come up with something more interesting (it's happened before). And its way too much money to lose.

I'm prepared to be told I'm BU to consider going without her and explaining that it's a honeymoon but her sibling is too young to be left at home.

Thoughts please..

YABU your DC is going, its a family holiday, of course invite her
YANBU it's your honeymoon, you should enjoy it

Hopefully after all this angst she won't want to come anyway because the new plan doesn't sound fancy enough and she will have to be around her sister and SM.

*The thing is I know most of DSD's behaviour is coming from a place of anxiety at being replaced, she's a young 15 and not very fair to hold her accountable. I know it would send a strong message that she's as important as our DC to include her in the plans. But I know I won't have a good time.

So my dilemma really is do the right thing or do the selfish thing.*

You have clearly thought about this and know what's important here. Do the right thing. You're the grown up.

@Youseethethingis

Hopefully after all this angst she won't want to come anyway because the new plan doesn't sound fancy enough and she will have to be around her sister and SM.

Indeed...

I do agree ASofa.

It's been 3 years. She's had time to have this attitude toward your child addressed and her feelings discussed. It is now having an effect on your child's self esteem which will only get worse as she gets older and more aware.

Regardless as to the issues DSD is going through, there would come a point where I refused to subject my child to that any longer. Id not be having her feeling like an outcast on holiday for 2 weeks.

I've been a step child, I understand the worry about being replaced and I agree it's a concern. But OPs child doesn't deserve to have that taken out on them and I don't see what good it does ignoring and even rewarding the behaviour toward them. Civility is one thing but apparently she wouldn't even try to help if she saw her falling over and becomes passive aggressive at the mere requirement of standing next to her younger sibling. No sorry, I would not be subjecting my child to the potential damage of being made to feel that way so I could tip toe around DSDs feelings.

Honestly, after your post about her actions while you were having chemo I wouldn't have her in the house. You're a bigger person than me even thinking about bringing her away with you.

I'm with Asofa on this. I wouldn't take her either. This situation will never improve if you do.

I don't think leaving her out will improve her behaviour, I am not being selfless here. I am thinking I won't enjoy it at all and don't want to sacrifice my only honeymoon and all the costs involved. So my dilemma is if the fallout will be worth it.

Anyway just spoke to DP here, we are going to talk to her again this week and see if we can improve the situation. We are framing it as "we would love to have an amazing family holiday after the wedding but it has to be enjoyable for everyone or else there's no point. To make it enjoyable, X y and z needs to happen. Do you want to be part of that or not?"

@Honeymare

I don't think leaving her out will improve her behaviour, I am not being selfless here. I am thinking I won't enjoy it at all and don't want to sacrifice my only honeymoon and all the costs involved. So my dilemma is if the fallout will be worth it.

Anyway just spoke to DP here, we are going to talk to her again this week and see if we can improve the situation. We are framing it as "we would love to have an amazing family holiday after the wedding but it has to be enjoyable for everyone or else there's no point. To make it enjoyable, X y and z needs to happen. Do you want to be part of that or not?"

If she says yes and you go ahead with booking a holiday for everyone, how can she guarantee she would stick with the plan? She has a habit of pulling out at the last minute and it would ruin your new plan. I’m really sorry it’s so shit for you as you seem to be in a lose lose situation.

@Honeymare

I don't think leaving her out will improve her behaviour, I am not being selfless here. I am thinking I won't enjoy it at all and don't want to sacrifice my only honeymoon and all the costs involved. So my dilemma is if the fallout will be worth it.

Anyway just spoke to DP here, we are going to talk to her again this week and see if we can improve the situation. We are framing it as "we would love to have an amazing family holiday after the wedding but it has to be enjoyable for everyone or else there's no point. To make it enjoyable, X y and z needs to happen. Do you want to be part of that or not?"

I'm relieved to see that you're not planning on letting her completely off the hook and tolerating that behaviour on holiday. If I were you I would be making it very, very clear to her that the holiday is first and foremost your honeymoon, so a two tier system where you and DH are seperated due to her is completely off the table. She will need to be prepared for you all to be together, and to not make that miserable for people.

But in all honesty I half hope that means she opts out of going, because you really deserve this honeymoon to be about you and your husband.

But in all honesty I half hope that means she opts out of going, because you really deserve this honeymoon to be about you and your husband

Agreed, I highly doubt it'll change anything and the holiday will still end up miserable even if she agrees to work on her behaviour beforehand. The role models of her older sisters and mother don't seem to give out much hope do they.

I think she probably will opt out because her response will be "so I'm only allowed come if I babysit her or pretend to like her?" and our response to her will be "no, the holiday is for the family and for everyone to enjoy themselves and make an effort for other people to enjoy themselves. If that's not going to be possible then there's no point you coming. So we will see how the next month or two goes." Then we can prompt her to interact and if after two months she doesn't, we can say to her "look you're entitled to your feelings, you clearly don't want to be part of the holiday, that's disappointing for us but we respect your choice."

I think that is the fairest.

Well, if you want to make her issues with her younger sibling worse then this is a fab plan.

@Balonzette

Well, if you want to make her issues with her younger sibling worse then this is a fab plan.

Can you elaborate? What should we do?

@Honeymare

I think she probably will opt out because her response will be "so I'm only allowed come if I babysit her or pretend to like her?" and our response to her will be "no, the holiday is for the family and for everyone to enjoy themselves and make an effort for other people to enjoy themselves. If that's not going to be possible then there's no point you coming. So we will see how the next month or two goes." Then we can prompt her to interact and if after two months she doesn't, we can say to her "look you're entitled to your feelings, you clearly don't want to be part of the holiday, that's disappointing for us but we respect your choice."

I think that is the fairest.

I think this is a good plan tbh.

You have also posted this on the board nicknamed "the first wives club" just to explain why your getting a beating. These posts bring out the vile in some, and tend to excuse bad behaviour.

I wouldn't take her tbh, I probably wouldn't want to take DD either but if push came to shove and there's a crèche and you can have a proper holiday adult holiday to a certain extent. It's a honeymoon.

YNBU

What should we do?

You should have a proper, adult, child free honeymoon. Leave them both at home and do all the things newly weds are supposed to do.

This isn't a holiday OP. It's your honeymoon. If she isn't on board with even the discussion about how to make it a winde trip, she definitely should not come.

I understand taking the little one but no way would a teenager come.

She can be respectful around her younger sister, doesn’t mean she has to like her

Do what suits you OP. Your step-daughter can't be made to like her half-sibling, but you don't need to take her away with you, either. Do the short trip to the place with the childcare.

I think I would have been pretty appalled if my parents had had a baby when I was 13 so I can imagine it being even worse if your parents have split up and they then decide to start a second family. I do have a much older half sister and she has never been interested in me, though she is always civil if we have contact. I don't think you can expect more than civility. My uncle had two families as he was married twice and although I think the half siblings get on ok now, I don't know what the older ones felt like when the younger ones came along - they were a bit older that the OP's step-dd though, the youngest one was about 20 when the first of the second family was born so very much doing their own thing.

No leave her at home.

I wouldn’t be taking her anywhere tbh. A holiday is a lot of money, a well earned rest but NOT something anyone has a right to

With the year you’ve had, even without her appalling behaviour directly towards you AND additionally to your dc, you get to say/set whatever you want tbh.

As for the comments about a fourth kid taking away their inheritance

I’d be making it crystal clear that there IS no inheritance potentially as your lives/care etc will have precedence and that if they want to be assured of a comfortable life, to work their own socks off and be pleasantly surprised IF there is anything left after you’ve both gone.

I’d be mortified if I’d given birth to kids as rude and entitled as your dp kids.

@Blossomtoes

What should we do?

You should have a proper, adult, child free honeymoon. Leave them both at home and do all the things newly weds are supposed to do.

But OP has no one to leave her younger child with, she has to go.

Either way tbh it sounds like nobody will enjoy this holiday if SD comes along - including SD herself. If she doesn't like being around her younger sister then how will she cope being cooped up with her for 2 solid weeks, away from home?

It is a difficult situation and I honestly don't know what I'd do in your shoes OP as I think leaving her behind is likely to make her attitude worse and cement her feelings, but equally it's clear that her behaviour will ruin the holiday for everyone else, especially when you and your DH will likely end up taking one child each to do different things and not actually spending any time together.

Is there absolutely nobody who could take your DD even for a week? Personally I'd rather have the shorter holiday with no kids than deal with all this drama.

@Honeymare

I don't think leaving her out will improve her behaviour, I am not being selfless here. I am thinking I won't enjoy it at all and don't want to sacrifice my only honeymoon and all the costs involved. So my dilemma is if the fallout will be worth it.

Anyway just spoke to DP here, we are going to talk to her again this week and see if we can improve the situation. We are framing it as "we would love to have an amazing family holiday after the wedding but it has to be enjoyable for everyone or else there's no point. To make it enjoyable, X y and z needs to happen. Do you want to be part of that or not?"

I think this is fair. She is old enough to know she is behaving badly and can change that.

@Blossomtoes

What should we do?

You should have a proper, adult, child free honeymoon. Leave them both at home and do all the things newly weds are supposed to do.

I see, helpful. And are you going to organise childcare for our younger daughter?

Honestly OP just don't take her. Book during school holidays if that's easier.

You are important too, and not everything in life has to revolve around children. The 3 year old coming is unavoidable. Don't make it about DSDs behaviour or the sibling relationship, or anything else. Just say you're going on your honeymoon, and if she asks why 3yo is coming and not her you can tell her the truth, which is that you have no childcare for the 3yo so it's unavoidable.

Ignore all the comments implying you're a bad person, stop overthinking it, and enjoy your honeymoon.