Leave DSD out of honeymoon holiday

[Honeymare]

My DP and I are getting married next year. Like most people we have been through some tough times with covid and throw in aggressive cancer treatment for me, and losing a parent each.

I am really looking forward now, to the wedding, the marriage, the honeymoon. I have started a new business and starting to feel nearly myself healthwise.

We have been saving for the wedding / honeymoon. I haven't been in a foreign holiday in years, we booked then cancelled at three due to illness then covid came. We are really splashing out on the honeymoon (relative to our own earnings and lifestyle obviously).

We have a 3 year old DC and a 15 year old DSD. DSD comes to us regularly (eow and one or two nights for dinner every week) but not 50%. We always include her in holiday plans but she often changes her mind last minute if she gets a better offer from her mum's side of the family who are extremely wealthy. Anything we plan to do is always met with scorn and open sneering, clearly reiterates from the mum's side of the family. This ranges from something as small as a cake we offer "I only eat really good quality cakes from specialist bakeries" to bigger things. I know she is only mimicking behaviour she's observed but it gets wearing. She has siblings but they are older, have moved out of home and rarely visit.

I get on fine with her but I do find dealing with her stressful. She is not pleased about her younger sibling and will only say hello or goodbye under duress. Otherwise she ignores her completely. We have tried multiple strategies and it's not changing. Her perogative i suppose.

Now to the dilemma.

I don't want to leave DC at home for our honeymoon, she's too young so we have planned two nights in a luxury hotel at home then taking her to a really plush resort with us for two weeks. The trip is costing us a lot. I know it would be one of the few things we do up to DSD's standards and she would probably like to come but it won't feel anything like a honeymoon to me with her there, ignoring her sibling and demanding everything is done her way. I know I will not enjoy it.

And of course there is always the risk she will decide not to come last minute if her other family come up with something more interesting (it's happened before). And its way too much money to lose.

I'm prepared to be told I'm BU to consider going without her and explaining that it's a honeymoon but her sibling is too young to be left at home.

Thoughts please..

YABU your DC is going, its a family holiday, of course invite her
YANBU it's your honeymoon, you should enjoy it

It’s your Honeymoon!! Surely that gives you some slack on leaving children behind. Especially teenagers. Call it your honeymoon every time you mention it and not a holiday.

What is your fiance actually doing about the treatment of his youngest child OP?

If nothing, I'd honestly be ready to leave the relationship and ensure that my youngest saw her father only when DSD wasn't there. I wouldn't be risking the hurt to my child because my fiance can't be trusted to parent his older child and allows them to continue mistreating ours. Your child will understand more and more as she gets older and it will hurt and damage her imo.

@rookiemere

Well I just think framing it so that DSD gets told that she would get taken on holiday if only she was nicer to her DSSis is a horrible message for an already feeling rejected teen.

By all means the behaviour should be addressed and if one really wanted it to be linked to the holiday the conversation could be more around needing to show she can act appropriately round her DSSis in order to go, but to make that the reason she's not invited means if I was her I'd probably not go round any more, and good riddance I suppose some would say. But she's still DFs child.

I agree with you on this point. I think how she treats her sister needs to be (and is) tackled separately.

We have tried various (yes her DF mainly for the posters who asked about that) approaches and the most recent is to give her lots of time on her own with her DF and a little with me, without toddler monopolising every event.

I appreciate all the support and kind messages but I think missing the holiday as a consequence is too big and too disjointed for her to be able to connect in her head to her own actions.

Her mum has extended luxury holidays with her boyfriend alone and that doesn't bother her so I think the only problem will be knowing that toddler is going. I'm going to firmly frame it as "we would love to get our honeymoon alone but unfortunately she has to come. She will be in the hotel childcare most of the time."

I'm also going to take the advice to revise my plan, I haven't figured out all the details yet.

Thanks for all the contributions.

Living the life that should be hers? As opposed to her life with her (seemingly loaded) mum whom she seems to prefer spending time with?

I can't get on board with pandering to a 15 year old who films her stepmum after chemo. Sorry.

So basically she's told 'if you're horrible to your sister, step mum will take her away and you can be with dad on your own'.

Nah mate. I’ve read it all and you deserve your honeymoon with your husband and daughter. She doesn’t get to come. Just as the older ones don’t. You’ve been through a lot, be selfish. (Only it ISN’T selfish). Congratulations on your wedding and coming through treatment.

This is a big problem I think with blended families. Parents are too scared to actually parent their children properly in case they refuse to come round anymore.

You shouldn't have to take your child out because your step daughter is nasty to her. That is not dealing with her behaviour, that is allowing it and pandering to it and telling her that if she's mean to her sister she'll get what she wants, which is the little one being removed. I don't see how that is dealing with her behaviour at all really.

But her Dad likely won't want to actually deal with it because she can just turn around and refuse to come. It's shit. But don't kid yourself that this is an effective way to deal with her behaviour toward your child.

Nah mate. I’ve read it all and you deserve your honeymoon with your husband and daughter. She doesn’t get to come. Just as the older ones don’t. You’ve been through a lot, be selfish. (Only it ISN’T selfish). Congratulations on your wedding and coming through treatment

This. She's 15yo and she needs to deal with it. She could be a 15yo in a relationship and having sex and posters will be saying well that's fine but she yet she's too Young to not be a bully around a small child.Op you are focusing too much on pleasing her rather than her behaviour to your daughter. You will regret her spoiling your honeymoon. Leave her behind.

*There really are many options here that would mean getting a honeymoon AND ensuring your SD isn't resentful or feel rejected, but although you say you are revising your plans, you still seem focused on how you can get your dream honeymoon, without her, for 2 weeks, and somehow finding a way for her to be fine about it, rather than considering fair compromises.

@vivainsomnia *

Tbh I don't think I've read many threads where the OP has been so open to suggestions. Have you really read the thread?

She seems to spend a lot of time trying to make her younger sibling feel this way so I wouldn't be overly concerned anymore to be honest
I take thread that highlight the terrible behaviour of step children, which if course just the reflection of their mother's behaviour with a pinch a salt, especially when the behaviour described becomes more outrageous each additional pages of the thread when the OP finds themselves having to justify their wish to exclude them from a holiday.

I find it much more telling that her OH has to older children who seem to want nothing to do with him. This is usually much more telling of children who have been made to feel excluded and who can't be bothered trying once they are old enough to just stop putting themselves in situation where they are made to feel exactly that.

In fairness, in her very first post the OP said she finds dealing with her DSD stressful as she ignores the DD and only says hello under duress, so it wasn’t a dripfeed. It wasn’t til very late in the thread that anyone else properly explored what this means for the DD.

OP please don't revise your plans.

It's a honeymoon. Taking a 15 year old is very different to taking a toddler who will be in childcare some of the time.

You deserve to have the honeymoon you want and there is no reason to take a 15 year old. She is old enough to understand that her younger sister has to come, because she is young and can't be left.

She sounds pretty awful, with the treatment of your daughter and filming you after chemo. 15 is old enough to know that you don't behave that way, but she seems to get rewarded for it- she knows that if she carries on being awful to her sibling she gets time with you and her dad all by herself.

Please don't revise your plans.

I find it much more telling that her OH has to older children who seem to want nothing to do with him. This is usually much more telling of children who have been made to feel excluded and who can't be bothered trying once they are old enough to just stop putting themselves in situation where they are made to feel exactly that.

They're adults, have moved out, and will happily come to something as long as it involves someone spending cash on a posh day out or meal. They just sound spoilt to me. Which of course the OP's DH is partly responsible for.

@Puppalicious

In fairness, in her very first post the OP said she finds dealing with her DSD stressful as she ignores the DD and only says hello under duress, so it wasn’t a dripfeed. It wasn’t til very late in the thread that anyone else properly explored what this means for the DD.

Exactly, it was mentioned in the very first post. People asked questioned about it, OP answered.

@MobyDicksTinyCanoe

I don't understand why people keep saying if the step daughter was the OPs dd she'd have to take her...... Because if my own dd had kept that act up towards myself whilst I was going through cancer treatment no way in hell would I be taking her.

And the OP shouldn't give this anymore thought. I hope she has an amazing time. And I hope the stepdaughter realises how pathetic this behaviour is and grows the hell up.

I agree with this, and have to say I disagree with you OP that her behaviour should not mean her missing holidays. Yes to handling the issues separately, but if they hadn't been firmly put to bed before a holiday (let alone a honeymoon) cropped up then she would not be going and she would be told why.

I think it's gone beyond supporting to her and giving her extra attention because she feels insecure. She deserves to be in trouble and experience tough love at this point.

To add, I do agree she should have time alone with her father. Just not that this be used as a means to "deal" with her behaviour toward your child.

OP I think you need to be careful in how you describe it around her.

This is you and your husband’s honeymoon. No teenager would expect to come on a honeymoon.

You additionally have a toddler. Because you have a toddler you’re bringing her along because 2 weeks is simply too long for her to be happily without both mum and dad.

That’s really quite different from booking a lavish holiday and inviting one child over another child.

It would of course be quite awful to be taking one 8 year old over a 10 year old. But a 3 year old (who is barely going to remember it) going for childcare purposes, even the youngest 15 year old is going to understand that. Also if I had ever cancelled on my parents at that age it would have been made very clear I wouldn’t be invited again given the money wasted. It’s right that stepchildren are dealt with more delicately, but they do not need to be treated like glass just because their parents didn’t stay together honestly.

If your budget can stretch to it, be sure to talk loads about a “family holiday” with the 4 of you, whether it takes this place or next year so she knows and is reassured she is part of the family.

@ChoppyStu

So basically she's told 'if you're horrible to your sister, step mum will take her away and you can be with dad on your own'.

I know that's one interpretation of me taking toddler out of the house on the weekends she's here but another interpretation is - not everything is about toddler, you still get time with your dad and occasionally your stepmum alone.

I think it's right because we don't really know what her objection is (fear of being replaced, feels she is being disloyal to her 'real family', feels baby is stealing her future opportunities) and she isn't going to tell us if she's not relaxed.

I'm not saying it's perfect but it's improved, she's nicer to us, seems a bit happier and marginally nicer to her younger sister.

DF is trying to handle it, he is extremely involved but truth be told a little bit lost on what to do. He does insist she say hello, goodbye, ask for a hug goodnight but pushing seems to make it worse. A counsellor told us to not ask for anything beyond civility.

Anyway back to the honeymoon. I am still undecided on the details but I'm definitely going to change the plans. PP are right, it's having a lengthy family holiday that doesn't include her and that is not right. Even during the school term doesn't solve the problem as she will know we opted to delay it till then.

I am thinking of finding a resort that has childcare and activity courses for teens. The both children can be gone all day and we can have the daytimes I was hoping for. We could go for a week and then maybe have four nights away on our own for a European city break. I have a friend who will take DC for two nights and a GP the other two.

I think that sounds like a sensible solution @Honeymare to the holiday dilemma.

I know that's one interpretation of me taking toddler out of the house on the weekends she's here but another interpretation is - not everything is about toddler, you still get time with your dad and occasionally your stepmum alone. I think it's right because we don't really know what her objection is (fear of being replaced, feels she is being disloyal to her 'real family', feels baby is stealing her future opportunities) and she isn't going to tell us if she's not relaxed.

And the three year old that is noticeably insecure when she is around? They're just supposed to put up with being whisked away as if they are the problem? DSD gets three years+ of behaving this way without even having to explain why?

I hate to say it but in this case I actually feel quite upset that you are now planning on taking this teen on this holiday. Between what she is doing to her sister and what she did to you when you were ill, her behaviour is revolting. You know where it ends, because her siblings behaviour is also shockingly spoilt and rude. I think you are being way too forgiving of her behaviour, and as a result are sacrificing your own right to enjoyment in life, and your DDs happiness and security. It won't be long before she is far more aware of this dynamic than she is now. DSD needs to buck up her ideas, but instead she is going to be rewarded.

I think you're absolutely making the right call. If it was a honeymoon with just you and your DH, you'd be missing out on that by taking her. But as it is, taking her for a shorter holiday, somewhere with activities for both of them makes more sense. It wasn't a traditional honeymoon anyway.

I also know full siblings with age gaps this size and the teenagers often ignore the babies. It's just a difficult gap to manage and well done for actually trying to do that instead of hoiking your bosom like some posters on here about her behaviour.

I also know full siblings with age gaps this size and the teenagers often ignore the babies. It's just a difficult gap to manage and well done for actually trying to do that instead of hoiking your bosom like some posters on here about her behaviour

Yeah, well her adult siblings behave in basically the same way so I really wouldn't see it is admirable to support her going down that path. "Hoiking our bosoms" aka actually doing something about her awful behaviour and attitude.

OP have read all your posts and can see this is difficult for you. But it’s either a honeymoon, and there are no children, or it’s a family holiday (after your wedding) and both the children in the family are invited. It’s as simple as that, which I’m guessing you’ve realised.

Actually doing something about her attitude is absolutely the right thing to do. I don't think excluding her from a family holiday (which is what it is, not really a honeymoon) is the way to do that. Surprising that anyone would think that would somehow make her behave better. The 15yo will suddenly think "oh I've been left at home while my dad takes his new family on holiday. I really must be nicer to the new baby" snort.

@LynseyLoses

Actually doing something about her attitude is absolutely the right thing to do. I don't think excluding her from a family holiday (which is what it is, not really a honeymoon) is the way to do that. Surprising that anyone would think that would somehow make her behave better. The 15yo will suddenly think "oh I've been left at home while my dad takes his new family on holiday. I really must be nicer to the new baby" snort.

I would have addressed it already, definitely. I would be addressing it now. She would not have been allowed 3 years. But no way in hell would I be taking a child that behaves this way on a holiday, mine or otherwise. For everyone's sake, not just hers, she would have passed the point where all I cared about was her behaving better. Everybody else in the family deserves to not have to deal with it - OP and her partner deserve to spend time together on their honeymoon, DD3 deserves to not be treated like a pariah, and to be able to spend some time with her dad on holiday, as well.

She is not a baby. Unless her attitude changes she does not deserve to go on this trip.