Leave DSD out of honeymoon holiday

[Honeymare]

My DP and I are getting married next year. Like most people we have been through some tough times with covid and throw in aggressive cancer treatment for me, and losing a parent each.

I am really looking forward now, to the wedding, the marriage, the honeymoon. I have started a new business and starting to feel nearly myself healthwise.

We have been saving for the wedding / honeymoon. I haven't been in a foreign holiday in years, we booked then cancelled at three due to illness then covid came. We are really splashing out on the honeymoon (relative to our own earnings and lifestyle obviously).

We have a 3 year old DC and a 15 year old DSD. DSD comes to us regularly (eow and one or two nights for dinner every week) but not 50%. We always include her in holiday plans but she often changes her mind last minute if she gets a better offer from her mum's side of the family who are extremely wealthy. Anything we plan to do is always met with scorn and open sneering, clearly reiterates from the mum's side of the family. This ranges from something as small as a cake we offer "I only eat really good quality cakes from specialist bakeries" to bigger things. I know she is only mimicking behaviour she's observed but it gets wearing. She has siblings but they are older, have moved out of home and rarely visit.

I get on fine with her but I do find dealing with her stressful. She is not pleased about her younger sibling and will only say hello or goodbye under duress. Otherwise she ignores her completely. We have tried multiple strategies and it's not changing. Her perogative i suppose.

Now to the dilemma.

I don't want to leave DC at home for our honeymoon, she's too young so we have planned two nights in a luxury hotel at home then taking her to a really plush resort with us for two weeks. The trip is costing us a lot. I know it would be one of the few things we do up to DSD's standards and she would probably like to come but it won't feel anything like a honeymoon to me with her there, ignoring her sibling and demanding everything is done her way. I know I will not enjoy it.

And of course there is always the risk she will decide not to come last minute if her other family come up with something more interesting (it's happened before). And its way too much money to lose.

I'm prepared to be told I'm BU to consider going without her and explaining that it's a honeymoon but her sibling is too young to be left at home.

Thoughts please..

YABU your DC is going, its a family holiday, of course invite her
YANBU it's your honeymoon, you should enjoy it

The OP should absolutely not 'downgrade her honeymoon' - not one bit. Not for anyone.

And for goodness sake do not give her money instead. You shouldn't be rewarding this behaviour at all.

Id honestly be tempted to say 'you're not invited because you're horrible to your sister and she deserves a holiday without being made to feel that way'.

I don't understand your suggestion about the holiday. My future DH has to go on a separate honeymoon with his daughter
I think you are being disingenuous, the suggestion was clear. You go on your honeymoon with your OH and young daughter. the honeymoon doesn't have to be 2 weeks. Your OH then takes his eldest on a holiday of their own.

There really are many options here that would mean getting a honeymoon AND ensuring your SD isn't resentful or feel rejected, but although you say you are revising your plans, you still seem focused on how you can get your dream honeymoon, without her, for 2 weeks, and somehow finding a way for her to be fine about it, rather than considering fair compromises.

Are the DSD’s siblings that you mention also your SC? Or from a different father?

I think it’s fine. Especially if they’re all his children as it’s not just her you’d be excluding. Make a point of telling her that your DC will be in holiday club most of the time so this is a holiday just for you and DH.
Realistically, once your DD is in bed and you are your DH go and sit on the terrace with a glass of wine etc, what would the older one be doing at that point? Going out on her own or just sitting around as a 3rd wheel?

Perhaps I’d make it a 10 day holiday though and keep a bit of the allocated money aside for a family weekend away somewhere nice.

ensuring your SD isn't resentful or feel rejected

She seems to spend a lot of time trying to make her younger sibling feel this way so I wouldn't be overly concerned anymore to be honest.

@ChoppyStu DSD is a child not an adult, and one whose DF seems utterly clueless about the dynamics of his family or ensuring that this own DD doesn't feel left out.

I'm not excusing DSDs behaviour but it seems obvious that it comes from a place of being worried about rejection. In any case it doesn't mean that adults should indulge in tit for tat behaviour.

[quote rookiemere]@ChoppyStu DSD is a child not an adult, and one whose DF seems utterly clueless about the dynamics of his family or ensuring that this own DD doesn't feel left out.

I'm not excusing DSDs behaviour but it seems obvious that it comes from a place of being worried about rejection. In any case it doesn't mean that adults should indulge in tit for tat behaviour.[/quote]
But at what age does there start to be consequences for your behaviour? You can call it tit for tat if you like but I wouldn't reward my child for bullying anyone, sibling or not.

I don't see whats wrong with saying unfortunately you can't come on this holiday as your little sister is starting to become affected by your behaviour towards her, which we have spoken to you about in the past, and therefore a holiday together for two weeks is just not something we will be able to do.

It's not like she hasn't been spoken to before about this behaviour toward her sibling, OP says they spoke about it previously. You can't expect to treat your young sibling like shit, affect them emotionally and there not be any consequences to that. Unfortunately her behaviour means that it's now not healthy for the little girl to be around her older sister for that length of time.

Although I do agree, OP hasn't said anything about her fiance which makes him sound like he's dealing with any of this behaviour at all.

And I know lots of people like to say how DSC don't get a choice when their parents go on to have more DC etc.. but that's the same with most families, nuclear or not. My oldest SS didn't have a choice that my younger SS (same parents) was born and they don't always get on. He'd probably tell you that he wishes his brother hadn't been born half the time! But he's here and it's not an excuse to treat him like crap and I would not subject my small impressionable child to that.

15 is not an adult, but it's old enough not to bully a small child and get away with it.

Yes, but full siblings get to spend all their time with both parents at the same time. It isn't the same thing as a "new family" at all.

I'm not saying "bullying" is right, just pointing out that it isn't the same at all.

@SoupDragon

Yes, but full siblings get to spend all their time with both parents at the same time. It isn't the same thing as a "new family" at all.

It still doesn't excuse bullying a small child imo.

My point wasn't that nuclear and blended families are exactly the same. But that no one, in either scenario, tends to get a choice about whether they have siblings or not. No one would think this treatment of full siblings acceptable, just because they happen to be "half" doesn't mean it's fine to treat them horribly and get away with it. They are still people. They are still a small child who will grow up with issues likely surrounding their self esteem and so on. It's no more excusable.

Well I just think framing it so that DSD gets told that she would get taken on holiday if only she was nicer to her DSSis is a horrible message for an already feeling rejected teen.

By all means the behaviour should be addressed and if one really wanted it to be linked to the holiday the conversation could be more around needing to show she can act appropriately round her DSSis in order to go, but to make that the reason she's not invited means if I was her I'd probably not go round any more, and good riddance I suppose some would say. But she's still DFs child.

but to make that the reason she's not invited means if I was her I'd probably not go round any more, and good riddance I suppose some would say

Unfortunately, it would probably be beneficial for the well-being of the younger child if she did. Which is exactly why her behaviour needs actually dealing with and not just excusing with 'but she's a child'. Because if I were OP and I was witnessing my small child reacting the way she is to nasty treatment from my older DSD, I'd probably be quite happy for her to stop coming. Which is sad, but not all that surprising.

Her father needs to step up and actually deal with her behaviour. None of this money instead of a holiday crap.

And it's not really being frames as anything. It is one if the main reasons OP has given as to why she wouldn't enjoy a holiday with her DSD. Because she's horrible to OPs child meaning that it would be unpleasant for everyone and OP would likely need to take the younger child off to do their own thing because DSD can't tolerate her being around.

Ignoring a younger sibling for 3 years when she can see it's hurting her feelings/she doesn't understand why is truly horrible. I wouldn't take her.

OP were you the other woman in the breakup of step daughter's family?
12 is a hard age for any child to get used to a new sibling coming along
I think she us v vulnerable & acting out & feels v pushed out.
You & your 3 year old are living the life she feels should be (& was) hers.
It's so odd how adults twist themselves inside out to justify how their rotation of failed/ new relationships are all fine & kids adapt when ultimately it's the kids who pay the highest price for it all.
Has anyone arranged some therapy for your SD? So she can work through her feelings around her father starting a whole new life with a step mother who finds her inconvenient?

Agree with PPs too, my need to protect my own child would end up far too strong in this scenario for me to just keep quiet about it any longer and concern myself with why DSD was acting that way. I'd frankly reach the point where I wouldn't care why.

If my child was being bullied by anyone else, I wouldn't really be concerning myself with why the bully was bullying even though I'm sure there tends to be a reason. Just that my child stopped being affected by it. I think that's a reasonable reaction in most parents.

@NalPolishRemover OP has already answered this one - she wasn't the OW- and FWIW she appears to have much more concern for her DSD than her actual DF does.

[quote rookiemere]@ChoppyStu DSD is a child not an adult, and one whose DF seems utterly clueless about the dynamics of his family or ensuring that this own DD doesn't feel left out.

I'm not excusing DSDs behaviour but it seems obvious that it comes from a place of being worried about rejection. In any case it doesn't mean that adults should indulge in tit for tat behaviour.[/quote]
No it isn't. The OP has said the mother and older siblings are also rude and hurtful for no reason. The SD has made it quite clear she doesn't like this child, it's not her problem, and she doesn't care if she's hurting the family. This isn't a rejected teen lashing out, it's an enabled teen emotionally abusing a tiny child. The teen isn't going to suddenly grow out of it if she gets a holiday, and any hurt she feels is not the responsibility of a 3yo who will likely end up with all sorts of esteem issues from this treatment.

I don't think you're evil for considering it, but I don't think you should leave her for your DH's sake. She's 15, she will remember slights like not being invited on what appears to be a family holiday, and your DH may have to deal with the fall out/reduced relationship. I'm not saying YABU, but I think unfortunately as parents it's your job to push to keep her part of the family unit, whether she likes it or not, lest you be blamed further down the line.

I'd also be pleased DH wants to put the kids first and encourage that quality just in case things don't work out between the two of you!!

We took our almost 3yr old with us on honeymoon, although I knew it would be more like a family holiday. There were childcare options for her there but they didn't work out and she didn't go to bed till 9/10pm each night. We made the best of it but it was hard!

I don't think you're evil for considering it, but I don't think you should leave her for your DH's sake

No, she should be left for OPs daughter's sake though.

@NalPolishRemover

OP were you the other woman in the breakup of step daughter's family? 12 is a hard age for any child to get used to a new sibling coming along I think she us v vulnerable & acting out & feels v pushed out. You & your 3 year old are living the life she feels should be (& was) hers. It's so odd how adults twist themselves inside out to justify how their rotation of failed/ new relationships are all fine & kids adapt when ultimately it's the kids who pay the highest price for it all. Has anyone arranged some therapy for your SD? So she can work through her feelings around her father starting a whole new life with a step mother who finds her inconvenient?

If you bothered to read the OP's responses you would know the ex ended the marriage 2 years before OP started a relationship with him.

Have you read how the DSD has behaved to her little sister and to OP when she was ill?

Maybe you should.