Leave DSD out of honeymoon holiday

[Honeymare]

My DP and I are getting married next year. Like most people we have been through some tough times with covid and throw in aggressive cancer treatment for me, and losing a parent each.

I am really looking forward now, to the wedding, the marriage, the honeymoon. I have started a new business and starting to feel nearly myself healthwise.

We have been saving for the wedding / honeymoon. I haven't been in a foreign holiday in years, we booked then cancelled at three due to illness then covid came. We are really splashing out on the honeymoon (relative to our own earnings and lifestyle obviously).

We have a 3 year old DC and a 15 year old DSD. DSD comes to us regularly (eow and one or two nights for dinner every week) but not 50%. We always include her in holiday plans but she often changes her mind last minute if she gets a better offer from her mum's side of the family who are extremely wealthy. Anything we plan to do is always met with scorn and open sneering, clearly reiterates from the mum's side of the family. This ranges from something as small as a cake we offer "I only eat really good quality cakes from specialist bakeries" to bigger things. I know she is only mimicking behaviour she's observed but it gets wearing. She has siblings but they are older, have moved out of home and rarely visit.

I get on fine with her but I do find dealing with her stressful. She is not pleased about her younger sibling and will only say hello or goodbye under duress. Otherwise she ignores her completely. We have tried multiple strategies and it's not changing. Her perogative i suppose.

Now to the dilemma.

I don't want to leave DC at home for our honeymoon, she's too young so we have planned two nights in a luxury hotel at home then taking her to a really plush resort with us for two weeks. The trip is costing us a lot. I know it would be one of the few things we do up to DSD's standards and she would probably like to come but it won't feel anything like a honeymoon to me with her there, ignoring her sibling and demanding everything is done her way. I know I will not enjoy it.

And of course there is always the risk she will decide not to come last minute if her other family come up with something more interesting (it's happened before). And its way too much money to lose.

I'm prepared to be told I'm BU to consider going without her and explaining that it's a honeymoon but her sibling is too young to be left at home.

Thoughts please..

YABU your DC is going, its a family holiday, of course invite her
YANBU it's your honeymoon, you should enjoy it

It’s the father / fiancé in this scenario that particularly pisses

Happy to do whatever will make the OP happy on her honeymoon, whatever she decides re HIS daughter.

He’d do the same to your 3 year old in 12 years time if he’s with another woman in same scenario OP.

Sickens me.

Agreed @Marni83 and he probably expects DSD to fade away like her siblings once she's an adult, but will tearfully wonder why that's the case in the future.

@Marni83

It’s the father / fiancé in this scenario that particularly pisses

Happy to do whatever will make the OP happy on her honeymoon, whatever she decides re HIS daughter.

He’d do the same to your 3 year old in 12 years time if he’s with another woman in same scenario OP.

Sickens me.

He has said to her he wants neither or both children to go though so I think a lot more of that is about the OP and her attitude of “my way or no way” as much as anything which puts him in an awkward position (although I fully agree his children should come first)

But if the DF had put his foot down and insisted his DD was included if other DD was then there wouldn't be a need for this thread.

He is being weak and refusing to step up to being an adult- of course he doesn't want to upset his partner who has been through so much and probably in the back of his mind he's not that keen to pay thousands for His DD to go as well and spoil the holiday.

But really it's not a decision that can be delegated to someone who doesn't have his DDs best interest as a priority.

No he doesn’t
He says he wants neither or both
But will go along with whatever OP decides because his “priority” is making her happy re wedding and honeymoon

Not inviting her isn’t exactly going to help relations between her and your DC though is it? She will likely resent your DC even more.

Two both or neither, anything else isn’t okay.

She's fifteen. Old enough to understand that a honeymoon is something special and not a family holiday. She has her mother. At this point in her teens she has a lot of her own life. The three year old has no parent if she's left and she's very little to manage that long. She's going to be mostly in child care during the honeymoon.

I'm sure there will be plenty of things you do in the future that are about the 15 year old and for the 15 year old, but you don't need to take her on principle. Especially as it sounds like she won't at this age and stage make it much fun for anyone.

Being a step mother isn't always easy or fun, either, there are other angles to consider in this position

There’s a huge difference though, you actively choose to be a step parent by choosing a partner with children. The children get no say whatsoever.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Being a step mother isn't always easy or fun, either, there are other angles to consider in this position

There’s a huge difference though, you actively choose to be a step parent by choosing a partner with children. The children get no say whatsoever.

Too right!

If anything really good comes out of Mumsnet it will be young women choosing not to marry men with kids.

At 15 she's also old enough to detect bull when she hears it. So she can't go because it's a romantic honeymoon but Dss can ?

@Honeymare when is it? dSD will presumably be about to do her GCSEs so term time holidays are out of the question for her. School holiday wise I wouldn’t take a year 11 in school hols either.

* There’s a huge difference though, you actively choose to be a step parent by choosing a partner with children. The children get no say whatsoever*

Exactly
When I read some posts of mumsnetter having boyfriends move in after 6 months, I think FFS…. Your child / teen now suddenly sharing their home with a virtual stranger. Their home FFS.

She's going to be mostly in child care during the honeymoon

I doubt that some how, she's 3! She'll be with her parents most of the time. Not many people would leave a 3yo in a hotel creche, for hours on end for two weeks.

@rookiemere

At 15 she's also old enough to detect bull when she hears it. So she can't go because it's a romantic honeymoon but Dss can ?

Well she’s old enough to know a 3yr old won’t even remember the trip. So not really the amazing holiday it would be for a 15 year old.

It sounds like the two nights in a luxury hotel are your “real” honeymoon, and I would push to do them without your 3 year old (is there absolutely no one you would trust to do childcare for two nights?).

As for the two-week holiday… it’s not happening directly after the wedding (unless I’ve misunderstood?), you’re taking your 3 year old… it’s lacking a lot of things that make it a honeymoon. Maybe it’s time to just be honest: this is a huge splurge of a holiday to celebrate not just the wedding, but also you surviving cancer, probably surviving the pandemic too, having to put up with rescheduling the holiday so many times, and probably so many “missed” celebrations while you were sick, and you don’t want your DSD to ruin it. And I feel that’s your right. You can love her DF, but if he and her mother (maybe it’s one more than the other) haven’t reined in her behavior and given her any consequences for acting this way by the age of 15, it’s not your job to sacrifice your holiday of a lifetime because of it. You may say she’s a young 15 and these actions come from a place of anxiety, but if she was your biological daughter and you had the right to discipline her yourself (and she didn’t have the option of playing her parents off each other, like perhaps cutting contact with her father if he takes away privileges), would you really put up with her treating your other child that way? I somehow don’t think so. Being jealous of the baby for a bit is understandable. But three years later? And after three years of adjustment, ignoring the other child would be unacceptable at age 8, much less 15. You shouldn’t have to call it a honeymoon just to justify not taking her. You have plenty of good reasons already (she’ll ruin it with her demands and how ill she treats her half-sibling, which really isn’t on; she may back out last minute despite how expensive it is; etc).

Thanks for all the comments.

I had another chat with with DP there. He looked taken aback that I was worrying and said DSD wouldn't mind, she understands it's a honeymoon. Herself and her (full) sisters often didn't holiday together over the years for various reasons.

He would have preferred a childfree honeymoon but the only option we have for childcare would be a bit of a worry for us both (just very different home atmosphere).

He thinks it's fine, just said if we were doing kiddy stuff he would have liked her there but does not think she's bothered. I'm still worried especially after reading some replies here. I was a stepchild myself so I can relate.

To give some further information, it's not simply that she's moody, it's that she won't acknowledge or interact with her sister at all. It is upsetting to witness and means we can only focus on one child at a time. We have tried various approaches, spoken directly, indirectly, no progress. The best thing to do right now seems to be for me to be busy with young DC when she's here so at least she gets the time with her dad. I spend eow out of the house or away to facilitate that. I don't want to spend my honeymoon doing our own thing, I want to be with my husband. We have offered to take a friend in the past and she has refused.

We can afford holidays home & abroad and have taken her, it was my illness which prevented it the last two years. Her mum has booked holidays in the past that clash despite us booking in the week and she's been told to choose which one she wants. I expect something similar to happen around the wedding.

Various posters have said I don't like her. That's not true but I won't enjoy the holiday with her. If it is a case that we invite her I think the best thing would be to downgrade to a reasonably priced resort. I don't see the point of blowing all that money when nobody will enjoy it.

The school term is also a good suggestion, it would mean waiting a while after the wedding but that's fine. I just don't know if that will stop her feeling left out so I will have to give that more thought.

I absolutely wouldn't take her, nor would I feel any guilt. I had stepchildren, and if they'd behaved that way to their little sibling, then no. My DD has step parents, and we did include her on our honeymoon, along with both sets of parents and our siblings, because that's what we wanted, but it's your honeymoon, not a family holiday. Your DD will be in bed early, off to crèche etc, sleep in a pushchair round the table and so on. A moody 15y with no company her own age will not, and will play gooseberry with a scowl.

I would, however, discuss it with her. She's 15, not a baby, and the way she is a with a tiny child would be unacceptable to me. I'd say it's a honeymoon, not a family holiday, and it's vastly cheaper to go in term time, HOWEVER, taking her wouldn't be a consideration while she refuses to acknowledge the little one. I'd ask how she'd expect 2 weeks at close quarters might go with that attitude, and as it's your honeymoon, you don't want to.

Surely a nice family friendly holiday all together would be the perfect chance to build the bond? I’m not sure how keeping her away from the family even more is going to help anything.

Your fiancé’s response in your last says a lot about his views to his children

I agree - this isn't a holiday; it's a honeymoon. You're only taking your youngest child because you have no childcare options. If it was a normal family holiday, I would take DSD, but I wouldn't take her on honeymoon, especially if she's going to behave like a brat.

If your DP would really like her to come, then, he has to have a serious talk with her about her behaviour, and what the expectations are e.g. this is your honeymoon, the two of you will wish to be alone much of the time and have arranged babysitting for your youngest. DSD is welcome to come if she is happy to attend a kids club and cuts the whining and bitchy comments etc., and starts interacting with her younger sibling. I would also expect to see this change well before the honeymoon.

@Sirzy

Surely a nice family friendly holiday all together would be the perfect chance to build the bond? I’m not sure how keeping her away from the family even more is going to help anything.

Your fiancé’s response in your last says a lot about his views to his children

Well it hasn't worked so far.

In my experience a 15 year old would be horrified at the thought of going on a honeymoon with a parent and step parent.

@Sirzy

Surely a nice family friendly holiday all together would be the perfect chance to build the bond? I’m not sure how keeping her away from the family even more is going to help anything.

Your fiancé’s response in your last says a lot about his views to his children

I'm not keeping her away from the family, I'm giving space to her and her dad. They get on well when working on projects together and she has seemed much happier when she doesn't have toddler around annoying her. I've also been trying to spend some time with her just the two of us. We decided to do this based on reading threads here from grown step children.

Some reflections

1. It’s not true that the 3yo will be in childcare all the time, and DSD will know that. There will be lovely strolls along the beach holding 3 yo hand etc. Gorgeous. But clearly exclusionary.
2. It’s not true that DSD couldn’t have fun. I bet this resort has scuba diving and kayaking and a games room and and and...

So really the only leg you have to stand on is that you have no other alternative child care for the three year old. But the only reason that’s true is because you have chosen a two week trip. You need to go just for the amount of time you can leave your three year old for (eg a week?). Otherwise you are basically deliberately constructing a situation where you are “forced” to go on a holiday of a lifetime with your lovely 3 yo and leave your DSD out.

Finally, I get that her behaviour is problematic. But imagine she is your own daughter - you don’t “punish” a kid by leaving them out of your once in a lifetime family holiday.

I write all of this as someone who still hasn’t had a honeymoon because my kids have always been too young to be left. That’s life unfortunately! Am looking forward to doing it as part of our 10 year anniversary!

To give some further information, it's not simply that she's moody, it's that she won't acknowledge or interact with her sister at all. It is upsetting to witness and means we can only focus on one child at a time. We have tried various approaches, spoken directly, indirectly, no progress. The best thing to do right now seems to be for me to be busy with young DC when she's here so at least she gets the time with her dad. I spend eow out of the house or away to facilitate that. I don't want to spend my honeymoon doing our own thing, I want to be with my husband. We have offered to take a friend in the past and she has refused.

Christ, I mean from this alone I wouldn't honestly be taking her on any family holidays beyond solo trips with her dad. I know that sounds harsh but it is completely unworkable for the family to have to be fully seperate to accommodate a teen's unreasonable desire to totally ignore another child. She of course deserves support but this I wouldn't tolerate, and I know DP wouldn't either if it was his son.

Glad DH is on board!

Stop worrying and have a lovely time with DH and 3yo.

There will be other opportunities to build a bond with DSD, a honeymoon is a one-off.