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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That New Zealand's strategy has failed

999 replies

JudesBiggestFan · 22/08/2021 23:21

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

OP posts:
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KittyWindbag · 23/08/2021 05:41

It is so embarrassing witnessing people from the uk essentially crowing over NZ and their current status, like the uk didn’t make an absolute show of itself throughout the whole pandemic boasting numbers to be ashamed of and a large part of the populace, including on mumsnet, making out like mask-wearing was an infringement on human rights.

Troubleinthelowerfourth · 23/08/2021 05:48

The thing I really take issue with on this thread is the idea that NZ thought that we "had defeated covid." We have kept covid at bay, but the message has always been that outbreaks are inevitable.
It's a shame that some people seem to be so pleased to see New Zealand facing this oubreak, and how quickly people are writing us off as doomed. Hopefully the team of 5 million can be successful again and we can get back to our normal lives before too long.

gofg · 23/08/2021 05:56

Also OP, has your friend been living under a rock? We were warned that if Delta arrived we would probably be back in lockdown - my friends and I worked out that it would happen as soon as one of us heard about the original case, none of us were "shocked"

Florrieboo · 23/08/2021 06:03

It is far too early to say who did it right and who did it best, how will we quantify that?
Deaths? Long Covid? Job losses? Days in lockdown?

AuntieJoyce · 23/08/2021 06:12

I don’t understand why NZers are not more frustrated at the slow vaccine roll out. I would be

I’m double vaccinated and just had covid. Unpleasant but not as bad as flu. The way forward is mass vaccination and milder disease.

Or no more tourist industry

50ShadesOfCatholic · 23/08/2021 06:14

@AuntieJoyce

I don’t understand why NZers are not more frustrated at the slow vaccine roll out. I would be

I’m double vaccinated and just had covid. Unpleasant but not as bad as flu. The way forward is mass vaccination and milder disease.

Or no more tourist industry

That's ok, you can be frustrated on our behalf. We tend to focus on solutions here rather than the blame and shame culture endemic in the UK.
EccentricaGalumbits · 23/08/2021 06:14

Any country that avoided widespread outbreak until the vaccine was available has done well. Whatever happens next, the scale of human loss in China, UK/Europe, USA etc last year is unlikely to be seen again.

AuntieJoyce · 23/08/2021 06:18

@50ShadesOfCatholic why don’t you think vaccination is the solution? What is the solution for you?

Gingerodgers · 23/08/2021 06:22

It’s always interesting, as a dualNZ/UK citizen to compare the how the news of COVID is presented differently throughout the world. May I suggest that some of you British mumsnetters take a look at what the rest of the world thinks of them, before gleefully announcing thatNZ has it all wrong and is failing

violetbunny · 23/08/2021 06:25

I don't think most people here in NZ thought we had "defeated Covid". And for the last year and a half we've lived normal lives for the most part. I'd hardly call that a complete failure.

lannistunut · 23/08/2021 06:25

They have had only a very low number of deaths, little lockdown, children have had no trauma/disruption, businesses were open - they haven't failed. The UK has had an awful time of it due to government mismanagement.

We will have to see how NZ get on with the next phase.

You can't compare the UK and NZ because the approach was so different, in NZ it appears the government wanted to save lives, in the UK the government genuinely doesn't give a shit how many people die, so long as it remains the right side of re-electable. The UK government's priority is getting contracts to friends. In this regard, the UK has resoundingly beaten NZ.

CheekyHobson · 23/08/2021 06:26

This thread – as many before have been – is based on the curious belief that New Zealanders aren't clever enough to understand that Covid will become endemic in the community AT SOME STAGE. The vast majority of Kiwis do understand this, OP's pal notwithstanding. 'Zero Covid' has always been talked about as a short-term solution, not an eternal state of affairs. (I suppose all political strategies are short-term solutions but that's another conversation really.)

The plan has always been to keep Covid out for as long as feasible – not 'forever'. Covid has been around for 1.8 years, NZ has managed to largely keep it out for that time and is aiming to continue doing so until the largest possible percentage of the population has been vaccinated, including children, unlike the UK. Given the size of the population and the current rate of the vaccination schedule, this should be achieved by the end of the first quarter next year latest, probably much sooner. That means NZ's efforts will have been toward keeping Covid out for 2.25 years. Quite different to 'forever.'

During this pandemic, the New Zealand community has been in lockdown for a tiny proportion of time compared to most countries. The population has enjoyed more internal freedom of movement, normal school and general activity than almost any country in the world and this will still be true at the end of this current lockdown.

It has also had a fraction of the deaths and serious illness of most countries. This will also continue to be true once the country 'opens up'. Literally thousands of painful and premature deaths have been prevented and better general population health has been maintained. Yes, there will be illnesses and deaths in the future, everyone understands this, but the severity will be substantially mitigated by having the population highly vaccinated before 'letting it in'. This is a good result from any angle.

The economy has also been much less badly affected than most countries. Despite the border closures, NZ has maintained economic growth through the pandemic. Assumptions about the critical importance of tourism to the economy have been given cause for review, to the relief of quite a lot of people who are a bit fed up about the damage tourism does along with the money it brings.

New Zealand's vaccine rollout has been slower than most countries for two major reasons:

  1. With zero Covid in the community, it made sense that other countries with high levels of Covid in the community would be prioritised for deliveries. You are welcome.
  2. New Zealand simply does not have the same kind of economic swing that much larger countries used to demand priority delivery, which I would think more of the people describing NZ as 'a tiny island at the arse end of the world' would be able to figure out.

I am amazed at the confidence of people to opine on the success or failure of NZ's health strategy given that their ignorance about this country shows it has zero actual relevance to them. Also the confidence to declare the strategy a success or failure at this point, given that the pandemic is far from over. Again, I guess these are the same people who can't tell the difference between '2-3 years' and 'forever'.

And a genuine LOL at the idea that David Seymour would ever be the Prime Minister of NZ. He is intelligent and amusing enough and I admire his willingness to laugh at himself but his turn on Dancing With The Stars was where his fame peaked.

violetbunny · 23/08/2021 06:27

It does also feel a bit like some people have just been waiting for something negative to happen, so they can all pile in and say, "Told ya so!" Sad

Bigballa · 23/08/2021 06:28

@AuntyJoyce they're not saying vaccines aren't the solution, just that complaining about the delays won't actually achieve anything.

We were slow, our leaders openly admit that part of the delay was letting countries who needed it more get it first. Even as covid returns you'll find most kiwis still agree with this sentiment, we were happy to wait if it meant saving lives overseas.

Now we're vaccinating thousands a day. Everyone can get it, I'm young, no health conditions, non essential work not involving at risk people, my vaccination is day after tomorrow.

Now that it's back we will be vaccinating hard and fast, but that doesn't mean the delays were a failure they were an act of compassion and patience, something the rest of the world seems to be lacking at the moment...

lannistunut · 23/08/2021 06:40

@violetbunny

It does also feel a bit like some people have just been waiting for something negative to happen, so they can all pile in and say, "Told ya so!" Sad
Agree with this, misery loves company and all that.

It is because we all know the UK failed badly that some people want everywhere else to fail too.

No one really thinks the UK has handled covid well. We are a cautionary tale!

AuntieJoyce · 23/08/2021 06:41

Now that it's back we will be vaccinating hard and fast, but that doesn't mean the delays were a failure they were an act of compassion and patience

I’m glad you’re getting your vaccine. But I wholeheartedly think the way forward has to be vaccinating and living with it and you can badge this as altruism but it’s really just mismanagement. And it’s discouraged the population from vaccine take up which is clearly not a good thing.

whatthejiggeries · 23/08/2021 06:46

I agree with pieces from everyone's posts. I think NZ has done well so far but to not have already vaccinated the population is a huge flaw in the plan however much many want to deny this. Had they also vaccinated there would be no one in the world managed it better

CheekyHobson · 23/08/2021 06:46

And it’s discouraged the population from vaccine take up which is clearly not a good thing.

What on earth makes you say this? In polls NZ has shown itself to have one of the highest rates of vaccine willingness in the world. The current low vaccination percentage is wholly to do with available vaccine in the country, nothing to do with reluctance. Now that we have steady supply, I will be willing to bet that by Christmas NZ will have one of the highest percentages of population vaccinated in the world.

Bigballa · 23/08/2021 06:51

@AuntyJoyce I'll give you that it was not entirely altruistic, although not down to mismanagement. Why vaccinate a population that's not at risk with a new vaccine?

We waited, we let you lot be guinea pigs and now we know it's safe. If anything the delay has made people more likely to get the vaccine. It definitely hasn't made people more resistant I don't know where you got that idea from.

rwalker · 23/08/2021 06:55

They have on immunity poor vaccination it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Sort of an example but the isle of man did similar last a few days cover free .
I can't believe anyone would think they can eradicate this .
The only chance they would have of this would be to shut there boarders forever and thats not going to happen .

CheekyHobson · 23/08/2021 07:00

More than 1 percent of New Zealand's population received one dose of vaccine yesterday. Over 30 percent of the entire (all ages) population has received 1 dose, and 20 percent of whole population (most vulnerable groups and border workers) are fully vaccinated.

If that rate is maintained, literally every man, woman and child in the country will be fully vaccinated by Christmas. Obviously not everyone will take the vaccine but we could reasonably hope to have over 70 percent of the entire population fully vaccinated if approvals for the 5-12 year group come through in the next 2-3 months. Over 12s are already approved and can get vaccinated now.

newnortherner111 · 23/08/2021 07:01

I don't see the low number of deaths in New Zealand as a failure. Whereas in the UK the vaccine rollout is the only thing that has been good about the pandemic response. I stand by my view that a competent Conservative Prime Minister as opposed to Mr Johnson would have responded much quicker especially in March 2020 and the number of UK deaths would be at least 10,000 fewer.

derxa · 23/08/2021 07:05

As if the UK has fared dramatically worse than the major European nations during the pandemic.
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

AuntieJoyce · 23/08/2021 07:10

@Bigballa because delta has been around for months.

@CheekyHobson sorry I’ve not expressed myself well there. I meant it’s encouraged a laissez faire attitude to vaccination. The time to be cracking on with vaccination was months ago not in the last few days because of a new lock down

pollyglot · 23/08/2021 07:14

Not one person of my acquaintance has ever expressed to me the sentiment that we had "beaten C19". We have watched the relentless march of Delta across the world, and have known that sooner or later, it would reach us here, in the "arse end of the world" (pffft...). We live in the sparsely-populated sub-tropical Far North, and even here, where we have had, I believe, one case of C19, back in April '20, a goodly percentage of residents have been religiously using the tracking app and hand sanitising. There has been also, sadly, human nature being what it is, a fair amount of complacency. However, since this lockdown, the country has realised the need to pull together, and most seem very motivated to be vaccinated and to prevent, as far as is possible, the Delta variant from spreading further from the known epicentres. Yes, we are privileged here, living semi-rurally, with lots of land, fruit trees, deserted beaches on our doorstep, unlike city-bound whanau. JA is not without her faults, but she is not like the bumbling fool whose role it is to lead the UK through these crises. Mancunian DH is just so grateful to be here, not back in his hometown. Hopefully, we will have another brilliant, unfettered summer of freedom, just as we did last year.

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