That New Zealand's strategy has failed

[JudesBiggestFan]

And they will have to start the long and painful process of learning to live with Covid? I spoke to my friend in NZ earlier and he was in shock at being back in lockdown. He said they really felt they'd defeated the virus and this has just come out of nowhere. I feel for him but an airborne virus...it can't be stopped. And the cost of trying is too high. Or do they still have a chance of beating the virus?

Schools are already back in some parts of the UK.

That's a good point, and it won't be the first time Scotland has been let down by policy of averages. Hopefully they can catch up quickly.

You'll see only the preview, luckily the good stuff is in the preview.

NHS trusts making plans for announcement of roll out to 12-15s from as early as Sept 6.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mother-18-who-almost-died-urges-pregnant-women-to-have-covid-vaccine-7dnbj03lz

stepup The uptake of vaccine in the UK of the young is low because there is very little benefit to them to have the vaccine. The young are fit and well and are unlikely to have any problems recovering from covid emily

Complete rubbish. The young people I know have tried their hardest to get vaccinated, queuing for hours at mass vaccination centres or spending hours on the computer trying to book slots around their working lives, often having to travel hours from home to somewhere they can get a slot. Yet more than two thirds have managed to get their first shots and many have managed to bring forward their second shots when that was allowed. Bearing in mind under 26s were only allowed to come forward for shots in June and we are still in the original twelve week window before second shots were allowed and only a couple of weeks past the 8 week window they later conceded. The governments worries were based on a rate of 7 to 10 % expressing vaccine hesitancy compared with 4 to 5% of the wider population. Over 90% being willing to vaccinate is not low, they just haven’t had chance to get vaccinated yet. The government need to find people to blame for their own incompetence, and since most of their voters have no contact with young people they are a handy target.

So do you know any of these mythical young people who have no problem with getting Covid? Because I certainly don’t. They are trying their best not to because the ones they know who have it describe it as a horrible virus, crashing headache, nausea, shortness of breath, terrible fatigue and a debilitating loss of sense of taste and smell. Not like any virus they have had before, and a couple had flu recently which is also going round. It remains to be seen what the long term effects are. It is just hard for them to avoid it when they are on the front line in schools, hospitals, hospitality etc.

The whole point of this thread is that some societies around the world think it is wrong to leave their populations in the way of a nasty virus and now with a few hundred cases in one of those societies, that has had more freedom and suffered less economic damage than us, people here in a country where 150k have died and most of us have had some close experience of how horrible and random it is are rushing to cry failure! I wonder why?

And I actually was one of those people who had Covid with no symptoms. I haven’t got away completely scot free since I have cripplingly painful ear problems diagnosed as long Covid. Since I am immune compromised I am now part of a study into whether there is a genetic explanation for why supposedly vulnerable people are getting it without symptoms whilst the young healthy people you say are unlikely to not recover easily in fact are getting severe illness. It is not fully explained by other factors so the suspicion now lies with just the luck of your genes.

Whoever was crediting Boris for the vaccine rollout? That is complete rubbish too. Credit the Scientists in the public sector who worked all hours accelerating their research, and still are, there are some promising new vaccines in the pipeline that didn’t make it over the original finishing line. Also credit the NHS for rolling it out. Just think how effective the rest of the Covid response could have been if it had also been kept in the public sector where the expertise lay, as it surely would have been with any of our previous leaders, including Theresa May, in charge.

Step up, as usual your posts are full of denial.

Young people may cope with covid better in general but this is a novel virus that is encountering immune systems that don't know how to cope with it, even among the young, and it is doing long-term damage to some.

I know 2 young people who got covid, both have lost their sense of taste and still awaiting and hoping for its return after months.

So do you know any of these mythical young people who have no problem with getting Covid? Because I certainly don’t. They are trying their best not to because the ones they know who have it describe it as a horrible virus, crashing headache, nausea, shortness of breath, terrible fatigue and a debilitating loss of sense of taste and smell.

Presumably all the ones who have been going out to packed bars, clubbing and festivals etc. as soon as it was allowed didn’t rate their chances of being seriously ill that highly. And why would they, it’s extremely unlikely. I think the logging on trying for hours to get appointments and travelling miles to a vaccine site is somewhat hyperbolic too. It’s not at all hard for eligible people to get vaccinated here.

@PinkTonic

So do you know any of these mythical young people who have no problem with getting Covid? Because I certainly don’t. They are trying their best not to because the ones they know who have it describe it as a horrible virus, crashing headache, nausea, shortness of breath, terrible fatigue and a debilitating loss of sense of taste and smell.

Presumably all the ones who have been going out to packed bars, clubbing and festivals etc. as soon as it was allowed didn’t rate their chances of being seriously ill that highly. And why would they, it’s extremely unlikely. I think the logging on trying for hours to get appointments and travelling miles to a vaccine site is somewhat hyperbolic too. It’s not at all hard for eligible people to get vaccinated here.

Lots of capacity in our local mass vacc centres too. They've been quiet since July with walk-in appointments for all. There must be variation regionally but certainly no issues here.

Step up, as usual your posts are full of denial.

It is perhaps significant that according to the latest ONS data the only group who actually reach the 97.7% step quotes as the percentage of people who have antibodies are the over 50s. The figure for the overall population over 16 is 94.2, a great achievement in itself but there is some cherry picking of stats going on there

I don’t know what you’re talking about picsinred. The decision is made by the JCVI on whether the vaccine should be rolled out and they are still to make a decision. They’re concerned with the whole vaccine programme not just Covid and if they make the wrong decision and there are harms to children from the vaccines faith in vaccines could be damaged forever.

I don’t know what you’re talking about picsinred

The announcement hasn't been made to the public, but it's being reported that preparations are being made for general rollout to 12-15s as soon as 6th September.

pink 5000 out of 50000 (mostly the unvaccinated 16-18 year olds) attending Boardmasters tested positive for Covid afterwards, (and probably more caught it without getting tested). I don’t call 1in 10 unlikely. It has certainly shocked them. These festivals are advertising themselves as taking anti Covid measures whereas in fact they are clearly useless.. Of course they are going to flock there if their parents allow it (a lot don’t) , it’s peer pressure, a rite of passage and teenagers have a problem comprehending risk. At least now the level of sexual harassment /assaults by groups of teenage boys has been exposed and parents are a bit more savvy about that risk. It remains to be seen how many cases will be transmitted at all this weekends festivals.

Yes things quietened down in July (apart from at the centre that opened in the evenings) but when I took my DCs in June and again a couple of weeks ago there were long queues of mainly young people. There was a local issue that our biggest centre took a while to get equipped to give Pfizer but I think that pattern was replicated certainly in Coventry where DCs friend had to travel an hour to get their first jab and Yorkshire. Over two thirds of those young people eligible managing to get at least one jab does not sound like a group of people who don’t care if they get Covid.

Preparations may have been made by the NHS, which is sensible but NO decision has been made by the people that actually matter.

@Theluggage15

Preparations may have been made by the NHS, which is sensible but NO decision has been made by the people that actually matter.

No decision has been announced, yes.

@Emilyontmoor

pink 5000 out of 50000 (mostly the unvaccinated 16-18 year olds) attending Boardmasters tested positive for Covid afterwards, (and probably more caught it without getting tested). I don’t call 1in 10 unlikely. It has certainly shocked them. These festivals are advertising themselves as taking anti Covid measures whereas in fact they are clearly useless.. Of course they are going to flock there if their parents allow it (a lot don’t) , it’s peer pressure, a rite of passage and teenagers have a problem comprehending risk. At least now the level of sexual harassment /assaults by groups of teenage boys has been exposed and parents are a bit more savvy about that risk. It remains to be seen how many cases will be transmitted at all this weekends festivals.

Yes things quietened down in July (apart from at the centre that opened in the evenings) but when I took my DCs in June and again a couple of weeks ago there were long queues of mainly young people. There was a local issue that our biggest centre took a while to get equipped to give Pfizer but I think that pattern was replicated certainly in Coventry where DCs friend had to travel an hour to get their first jab and Yorkshire. Over two thirds of those young people eligible managing to get at least one jab does not sound like a group of people who don’t care if they get Covid.

I didn’t say they weren’t at risk of catching it emily, I said they clearly didn’t perceive themselves to be at high enough risk of severe illness to curtail their social lives. Which they aren’t. Which is why they weren’t prioritised. Them getting the jab anyway protects everyone, so it’s to be encouraged. Mine all had a choice of venues and the one who’s not keen on medical settings went to a drop in place in a shopping mall without an appointment.

Things are absolutely not ok in the UK with regards to covid. Admissions and deaths are rising, they are lower than January but we are still having 100 deaths a day in the summer from a respiratory virus. Many of these patients are young and would have had decades to live.

76 children have died of covid in the UK.

Hospitals across the UK are having summer crises of which covid is not the only cause, but it certainly adds pressure, especially to ICU and thus multiple hospitals have had to cancel elective and even cancer surgery this summer. This is unheard of in the summer months. The military has been asked to assist ambulances in some areas. Hospitals are having 12, 30, even 40 hour waits for beds. Again this is not just or even primarily covid but it is adding pressure and infection control in this siutation is tough.

Staff are exhausted, have worked four waves, it is still going, are burned out and traumatised.

ICUs are now a 1/5th full of covid patients (who stay significantly longer than most ICU patients) and rising - mainly unvaccinated patients in their 30s and 40s and 50s. In many areas it is far more than that.

This situation, which is nowhere near as bad as what happened in the winter though could definitely escalate as we go into autumn/winter again, is worlds away from the handful of cases they have in NZ. If people want to "live with" covid this is what it means and they should be honest about it, not nonsense about everything being normal.

We also did a full year of lockdown in some parts of the UK (eg Leicester), so it seems a bit weird to suggest NZ should be losing their shit a week in.

Credit the Scientists in the public sector who worked all hours accelerating their research, and still are, there are some promising new vaccines in the pipeline that didn’t make it over the original finishing line.

Don't know why you think this is a public sector achievement? BioNtech, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Jansen, Novavax, Pfizer, Valneva etc etc are all private sector pharmaceutical/biotech companies. The Oxford vaccine would still be a dream without the manufacturing knowledge of AZ. You'll be claiming it was Alexander Fleming who developed antibiotics next .

Janina Because it is. Please don’t undervalue the contributions of all the academic scientists whose years of research enabled these vaccines. I don’t undervalue the contribution of the the private sector that swept away the normal logistics challenges of producing them on a large scale or the government funding that accelerated them from years to months. The pharma companies enabled the logistics of rolling out. But it was public sector scientists who put the hours in developing them, I do know personally……

Sad thing is that whilst scientists thought they were bringing vaccines to the world the governments and pharma have tied it up so until we accept this is a global, not national, challenge we will continue to no deal with it effectively…..

Belatedly joining the chat from Aotearoa - another Kiwi extremely supportive of our government's handling of the pandemic. Kia haumaru.

For an interesting take on why our successes are being painted to seem like the opposite:

thedailyblog.co.nz/2021/08/26/a-disturbing-preoccupation-why-the-right-wing-media-hates-jacindas-covid-elimination-strategy/

emily first and foremost please stop highjacking the NZ thread by banging on about the UK. I am sure if you want to talk about UK covid there are a million threads to choose from. NZ problems are different from ours, and comparing them is like looking at apples and pears. One has a population of nearly 70 million and the other 4 million. One is an island in the south pacific and one is connected to the whole of the EU. We could go on.

I assume many people are concerned about Jacinda's socialist /communist leanings when you consider the draconian measures that are being meted out at every level of society in NZ handle Nor does the hero worship look especially healthy in that context.

Stepup I was highlighting that New Zealand was far from the only country to have implemented a strategy that made minimising infections and deaths a priority. Countries with vastly different political systems, ideologies, geography and population densities and some just as interconnected with the rest of the world as the U.K. and all have not just minimised deaths and infections but have also fared better economically than the U.K. As Squid says and Handles link explores you have to wonder at why some people in the U.K. with our record of incompetence, lock downs that had to be deep and long because they were called too late, croneyism and and high death rates and still living with high infection rates in most areas, are crying failure a week into New Zealand’s lockdown after a few hundred cases. Cases are down to 53 cases today, all in Auckland, and with most now traced the public health experts are cautiously hopeful, and public support for the strategy is strong. Even friends who do not support Arden’s politics are on board with her public health strategy (but then like me they lived through SARS in Asia so have experienced first hand both the early scary chaos when little was known and infections were rising and the impact when lessons were learned and a sensible public health response put in place). Taiwan are down to 8 cases daily, 2% of their peak having learnt from experience and expanded their test trace and isolate capacity. Hong Kong is on 6 daily cases, 5% of their peak. Even South Korea where you might just say the strategy has fared worse than elsewhere now has cases falling, albeit slowly, and their infection rate per 100k was never in any case higher than 30, whereas I am living with 400 per 100k in my borough. So I would certainly say that not only has their strategy been a success but there is every reason to suppose it will continue to be however much some people in the U.K. want it to fail.

step I assume many people are concerned about Jacinda's socialist /communist leanings when you consider the draconian measures that are being meted out at every level of society in NZ handle

So being a Social Democrat now equals communist leanings 😂🙄

And these are Public Heath policies that were built into our own public health plans and policies for a pandemic. New Zealander’s have experienced a great deal more freedom as a result of implementing them promptly and relatively competently. They are not political.

@stepupandbecounted

I assume many people are concerned about Jacinda's socialist /communist leanings when you consider the draconian measures that are being meted out at every level of society in NZ handle Nor does the hero worship look especially healthy in that context.

Except we lived freely for months and months, while the opposite was the case for you.

And we will live freely again - that we all know to be true.