Is she spoilt or am I shit mum?

[ojss21]

I've NC for this but I'm a regular poster.

My teen dd(15) has started to be quite challenging recently, and I we usually have quite a good relationship, but I've been a single mum to her for most of her life and up until 5 months ago she was an only child, so I tend to be lenient with her at times and struggle to determine whether her behaviour is spoilt or if I'm a shit mum (if that makes sense).

Here's some examples of her recent gripes / reasons for being annoyed with me :

1. I "only" gave her £100 cash for her 15th birthday plus a few cheaper things to open like chocolates. The main present was the cash and I've always done this for the past few years given her age as it's easier for her to choose her own stuff, I find. She complained for two reasons- firstly, it's not as much as I spent on her 5 month old sister's new car seat which cost £250 (clearly the baby needed that and it's not really comparable), and secondly because she wanted more things to open on the day (despite £100 cash being her main present and also a stretch for me anyway at the moment with being on maternity leave).

1. We are going away for a few nights this weekend (in the U.K.) and we were originally due to come back on Tuesday. We have extended to Wednesday as we plan to make a detour on the drive back to stay overnight with my sister who is going through a really shitty and scary time at the moment (don't want to go into details but it's health related and potentially very serious). My DD's response at this unexpected detour to her aunty's was "great, that ruins my plans to see my friends on that day as I thought we were coming back the night before. Wish I'd never agreed to come with you now". And off she stropped to her bedroom. This is an aunty who she is very close to, by the way, and is aware of her health complications currently. Dd has also had several days out and sleepovers with her friends this summer hols and I admit it slipped my mind she had planned this outing with them when I arranged to stay away from home an extra night with my sister.

So.... is my DD spoilt, or am I a bad mum for "only" giving her £100 for her birthday and for inadvertently ruining her day out with her mates? This is a genuine question, by the way. I struggle to gain perspective with her sometimes and she makes me feel guilty for my decisions. It's been harder since the baby was born as I feel I'm ploughing so much time and energy into the little one that I'm almost neglecting the eldest, so I do need some outside perspectives!

Thank you.

Big changes with a new baby sibling after so long being just you and her. Suddenly she has to share you. Even at 15 this is a big deal and it can shake you emotionally. You may have given her £100 each year but when the baby is getting a £250 car seat and I imagine loads more stuff its possible the 15yr old is sitting feeling like she gets nothing anymore. A couple more gifts to open is fun and probably going to make her feel like she isn't being left out.

I have teens and I will confirm that they're pretty selfish at times. It is literally all about them and their friends. Sometimes they need to stew a bit and will then think about why aunt's needs must come first. I find acknowledging their disappointment but being firm is the way forward: "I know that it's disappointing to change/miss your day out but family comes first and your aunt has been there for us in the past". They do get it when it isn't a bun fight.

On the birthday money, I bet she already feels bad about that. Just point out that you don't get £100 presents for your birthday (if that's the case!) and how lucky she is compared to many teenagers. I suspect though she's already feeling bad.

With teenagers you have to talk to them as a grown up but love them like a toddler, tantrums and all.

Congrats on the new baby too

It’s neither. She’s trying to adjust to a new baby in the house; she will be feeling pushed out and replaced because baby will be needing all your attention.

I really feel for your daughter - you've asked the question if you're being unreasonable, but your responses to people saying they can understand your daughter's perspective suggest you're not actually prepared to admit there's an issue for her. She is being ungrateful about the money, certainly, but it is, to some extent, understandable if you've prioritised a long term need of her new sibling - which is a rational choice to an adult, but easily perceived as an emotional choice as a teenager.

I think the situation with visiting your sister is more interesting. You say that as an adult, you have to change your plans unexpectedly, or do things you don't want to, which is true, but it's also, usually, a choice. You have the choice to visit your sister, albeit with only one "right" answer, but your DD doesn't get any choice if you change the plans without consulting her. If you had asked her whether she wanted to visit in the light of her bad news or take the train home alone, you might have had a more positive reaction. If she'd been bratty and said no, you'd have more of a point about her attitude.

I'm sure it's hard to acknowledge that your child is finding life with her new sibling difficult and is feeling pushed out. Teenagers are pretty much hard-wired to feel pushed out and hard done by even without those triggers. It's almost inevitable she'll need a bit more support right now.

I think she has more spending money per month than I do (and I’m 31!)

I’ve also just spent £600 on a car seat (which I saved from my measly spending allowance 😂) so you can all have a tizz about that if you like (it’s extended rear facing and easy to fit into 2 different cars and use for 3 different children) - if you can still take back the seat as you said then please do some research on rear facing it’s much much safer and not all this price!

This all sounds normal for a 15 year old and especially since there’s a new baby on the scene.

I have a toddler and a baby and it’s very clear when my older child thinks the baby is getting too much attention. I don’t expect a 15 yr old to say “put her down and play with me” but she’d probably like to.

I think in life the hardest situations are when we are miffed about something but know that we shouldn’t be so we try not to be miffed but we aren’t very good at hiding it.

This made me feel sad because we did used to do little shopping trips like this all the time. It's just so hard now with the baby too. I'm trying my best but the baby is just so demanding of my time and energy.

OP I sent a PM but this also resonates with me as I was in your DD position.

I was dropped like a hot potato. Or that’s how it felt.

I think if it had been explained to me that (for eg) every 3rd sat we would go shopping and having it diarised that I wouldn’t have felt like the practice child.

I think you've had some good responses - no one is at fault, you must be over whelmed, but if you want to keep a good relationship with DD you may need to make time for her and verbalise what you are doing and why.

As parents I think we forget to explain sometimes - ‘I want to spend time with you watching Love island, rather than put love island on’.

This made me feel sad because we did used to do little shopping trips like this all the time. It's just so hard now with the baby too. I'm trying my best but the baby is just so demanding of my time and energy.

Bet this is part of it.

You can take her out on your day and explain how much you miss it etc.

Although assuming you've not done it much for 18 months you might find her wants and needs have changed.

15 year olds ARE generally at least a bit selfish.

It's ok to acknowledge her disappointment in getting £100 when she wanted more, too (I would avoid mentioning car seat / comparing ANYTHING) but I would point out the £ she's getting from her dad too, in a gentle way. Maybe you could ask what she wanted to spend it on and help her find a cheaper version.

Btw my DC's c car seat cost £400 and I'd buy it again in a heartbeat.

Teenagers are selfish. Honestly her behaviour suggests she's a normal healthy kid.

She probably needs a bit of space and understanding because suddenly having a new sibling at her age will feel a bit weird. Plus now there is the family unit of you, DP and baby and she may feel left out. It's not the time to put your foot down really, she needs to feel a part of things even if she doesn't feel like being part of things.

Taking two cars sounds like a great plan. If possible, she should go with you and the baby with your DH on the way there so you can have a chat.

I think there is a bit of both here. I think you could have communicated better over changing the trip. She is being ungrateful over the £100 which is a good figure for a birthday. But, there is clearly more going on around the arrival of the new baby.

You’re getting a lot of stick for the car seat which is odd. I’ve spent a bloody fortune on car seats and there is no way I’d go for the cheapest. Lots of the very cheapest are absolute garbage.

I do think it is odd that your partner didn’t get her a birthday present though. That isn’t going to make her feel brilliant. I couldn’t imagine not getting a birthday present for a flat mate let alone a child.

I think that she needs patience for her misconception that the number of £ is the important thing here, while you calmly explain that she and her sister will both be given all that they need at the different stages of their life and that as sometimes value is relative... the difference between equity and equality basically. She is judging if the items received are equal, she needs to appreciate they are equitable and your available funds will vary in life but you will give as generously as you can from what you have. She also needs to be kindly reminded that receiving a gift ungracefully is very unkind as she is not aware how hard it was togive what you did. An item of necessity is resourced in a different way to a gift, just as it was when she was a baby. She also needs to remember that £100 is a lot of money and in some houses just the chocolate would be all she'd get as available finances are channelled towards food on the table and the gas bill.
So she is not showing a good attitude and is behaving in a spoilt way, but this is part of what she needs to learn and this is the opportunity for her to learn it, she isn't a bad person but you can't accept this.
When I was growing up my sister had a lot more money put her way than me, in the form of driving lessons, uni support, setting up home etc. Unfortunately when I reached the same stages I didn't get a matching amount as my parents fortunes fluctuated (serious injury, redundancy) in a way that coincided with my hitting those same milestones. However, our parents did give us both as much as they could at the time... so I know, as a proportion of their available money, I got as much as my sister... it just wasn't as much in reality. I think they treated us fairly (though naturally there were times when I wished I too was having these things happen when mum and dad were more comfortable). I did once carefully broach the subject with them and they gently pointed out they had done the best they could with us both.
She needs to recognise that exact cash value isn't what makes something fair or not - but you have to learn that, so teach her.

Just with regards to the detour to my sisters - we have agreed to take 2 cars and DP has offered to get up early with her on the morning and take her home in time for her to meet her mates. I will stay at my sisters a bit longer and head back with baby later in the day. So we have resolved that part at least.

[quote WhenISnappedAndFarted]@ojss21 I think you may have just found the problem with your last post OP.[/quote]
Spot on. As I said earlier I think it's not the money , it's what it represents to her - she's missing her one on one time with you because of the baby, the baby is you and your partners so is possibly worried he won't be so bothered about her now so she feels 'second place' and at 15 she probably can't articulate all this so its easier to kick off about a material gift.

Neither

She is 15 with a new baby in the house. Teens are highly egocentric.

Just hold firm, and keep the boundaries in place.

Savoury "With teenagers you have to talk to them as a grown up but love them like a toddler, tantrums and all"

love that bit of advice... I'm pocketing that one for future reference. I'm about to embark on teenage years and it is the stage I feel least confident parenting, so tips like this are gold.

I have a 5 month old too and a teenager (and a toddler to boot) so I get that its hard to juggle but I do feel like 100 quid isn't going to make her feel special. If that was all I could afford then I would at least have taken her out shopping to choose presents. I've just had a day like that with my DD to choose her school shoes and coat and while I left the 2yo with her dad, baby just came with us in the sling and was no trouble. She probably feels a bit pushed out, teenage girls are so so sensitive. I find my DD13 needs lots and lots of love and reassurance even though she adores her little sisters - she was an only for 10 years and its a big change

In terms of the visit to your sister she

Hi op, I've only read page 1.

My mum got married to my step dad when i was 11and had my sisters when i was 13/15. Life pretty much revolved around the babies and was quite hectic for a few years.

I couldn't express myself like your daughter can with you, if i felt hard done by i would never have told her, she was very strict and i was scared of her. Atleast your dd can be honest with you and she isn't internalizing all of her feelings.

I internalized everything but i did express my resentment in other ways, i became very secretive and rebelled in the clothes i wore and hair dye etc which i knew she'd hate.

The thing is though, i didn't know i was feeling resentment at being pushed out and having to babysit constantly, i only realise that now looking back. At the time i just felt overwhelmed with anger and hormones which your daughter will naturally be at that age. The £250 car seat vs her £100 is a big deal to her and might indicate she's feeling not as important to you especially with having to get used to a new sibling.

I'd try and take opportunities to show her how much she meanss to you, you sound like a lovely mum who is sensitive to her feelings to try not and beat yourself up.

Maybe just feels overwhelmed with it. I hope shes okay

you keep saying how much money shes been given but maybe she wants you to make the effort with her presents

“ This made me feel sad because we did used to do little shopping trips like this all the time. It's just so hard now with the baby too. I'm trying my best but the baby is just so demanding of my time and energy.”

And this is perfectly normal , of course you don’t have the same time and energy as you did before ,
I’ve been there - before I could bring my eldest anywhere and doing anything - now everything has to be planned around the youngers (and some of the youngers have to be planned around the eldest too ) that’s family life but it’s a big change for a kid who’s been an only all this time.
And that’s why I said in my earlier post it’s not really about money, it’s about time and thought.
Which is hard because you can’t clone yourself give two kids with different needs the same amount of time and attention

I had similar struggle with my DD many years ago and looking back I think I was both too lenient and spoilt her with too few boundaries.
She ended up very disrespectful and then came under the influence of a man who used any division between us to cause furhter problems.

I always regret losing her respect. so what can you do now?
Keep talking to her.
Explain your feelings and your her Aunts feelings. Keep reminding her there are other people to think of in this world. Otherwise its all teenage entitlement.

Try to do something special with just her once a week. Keep her feeling her bond with you is importent which it is.
Do not give in to cash demands.......fuck that....it willl never end otherwise and see if you can invlove her more as important big sister to her new baby sister.

I hope all goes well and remember that 15 year olds are usually difficult, challenging and struggling themselves.

I learnt too late that at that age they do not cope well with extra changes but then if a loved family member dies ( as in my life) you can't change that you have to carry on. Life does not make allowances for teenagers.

This made me feel sad because we did used to do little shopping trips like this all the time. It's just so hard now with the baby too. I'm trying my best but the baby is just so demanding of my time and energy.

I think this is the problem.

She wants your time. The baby has stopped you spending time with her and now you've also forgotten about her plans with her friends too. She feels (rightly or wrongly) pushed out.

Can your DP not have the baby for a day and you spend some time with DD?

@ojss21

I think it's the car seat comment that's upset me the most. Surely even at 15 you understand the difference between a safety item that is a necessity for a baby and £100 birthday cash? I wish I could have afforded to give her £250 birthday cash, I honestly do. But on mat leave pay I just can't

It's not about the car seat per se, OP, but what it represents. She feels like she's losing out to the new baby, not just in money, but in your time, attention and love. I'm sure she understands that a car seat is essential, but that £250 car seat has become an emblem of all that she's lost now she has a new sibling. She's no longer uppermost in your mind.

She's been the most important person in your life for all of her life, and now she's not. It's probably made her feel insecure and a bit destabilised, and at a time when she's ill-equipped to cope with it.

Teens tend to be highly emotive and reactive, they're awash with hormones. Plus the temporal lobe of the brain, which is linked to emotions, tends to develop more in the teen years and it takes a while for the bits that enable them to be logical and to control their emotional responses take a while to catch up.

I'd try a bit of love bombing for a while. And making sure that she knows she's foremost in your mind, consult her when making decisions about family stuff, like your trip.

With the visit to your sister, explain and apologise as a pp suggested. Would it be feasible for DD to come home by train, so she can go out with her friends as planned? If so, offer her that choice.

Your posts really resonated with me, OP. I was on the brink of puberty when my brother was born, and more than 50 years later I can still recall how awful I felt. Even a slightly askance look from my mother would hurt and made me angry. It was a dreadful time, and I carried a huge sense of grievance for years afterwards.

It lasted well into my 50s. When my late DF was in his final illness, I went to see him in hospital. He didn't recognise me, and I put this down to his dementia. Then my brother arrived, and on seeing him my father's face lit up. I felt a stab of pain and rejection at the lack of recognition, just like I felt for years in my teens and I was 54! The shock took my breath away, quite literally. And it still hurts now, just thinking about it, more than 11 years later.

Be as kind to her as you possibly can, and try and remember that when she lashes out, it's probably because she's hurting.

I don't think you sound a shit mum. And I think on the face of it her responses seem self centred but are very understandable when looked at from the point of view of someone feeling maybe insecure about their position now new baby is here. My curiosity is more to do with the fact you said your dp shouldn't contribute. I found this quite odd and wondered if this also is a clue about why there could be more insecurity. A new baby but also a baby of you and your dp who isn't her dad. Does he not give her a present then? I mean friends and family normally would. So why wouldn't he give her a present too? If you don't want him contributing to the money wouldn't he buy her a separate present? I presume you are a unit and therefore showing she's secure with that too might be something. I know he's not her dad and not trying to replace her dad. But I am surprised he's not contributing or giving her a separate present if they get along and have quite a bit to do with each other?

ojss21

Its good that you have resolved the issue.

But IMO you need to think about what your DD has been through and she may not be as solid or resilient as you think.

A list from what you have posted

Splitting with her DF
you getting a new partner
You have said that your partner is not always involved with her (not sure to what levels) but will be more involved with his DD.
Having a sibling
Having her plans (which you must have OK'd) moved.

She had a rocky start but has then gone from being number one on your list to number three or four.

And we don't know if your Ex has a DP and other children.

It may be in her head but you do need to think about how this has affected her and try to understand what she is thinking.