To go on holiday without him….?

[PineapplePrincess]

Holiday booked for December. Me, DH and 2DC. Booked pre-pandemic.

Hubby is not vaccinated and country doesn't currently allow unvaccinated people entry. It’s unlikely to change position before we travel.

Option 1 - we go without him.

Option 2 - we abandon the holiday.

Husband is in favour of Option 2.

I’m wondering whether I could manage Option 1. Biggest difficulty other than keeping an eye on both kids in a foreign country, is driving - I’ve never done it outside of the UK and it would be in winter conditions.

Would it be unreasonable for me to consider going without him….?

Are British citizens even allowed into Finland? Sweden very recently put UK on their red list (we recently travelled there for essential reasons) DH was only allowed into Sweden because he is married to me, who is a Swedish citizen. As Finland have been a lot stricter with their covid restrictions than Sweden so will probably follow suit very soon.

Take a friend In his place or family member

Or go with the advice to find a lover who's fully vaccinated!!!

Go on your own and enjoy it!

Years ago my now ex DH lost his passport and procrastinated about renewing it and it didn't arrive in time for a trip to France.

He was happy for us all to miss the holiday and I wasn't!

Although crapping myself I went with the DCs anyway, I was so done with his behaviour!

It was great! Driving on the 'wrong' side was a bit daunting at first but you soon get used to it as it's hard to do it wrong really. I didn't like being out in the dark so just planned around that. The DCs behaved really well, I think because they had all my attention and only one parent in charge, so no playing dad and I off.

We had the best time! It was so much less stressful than taking an extra man-child and I continued taking them away on my own, or with my mum, for years.

Why should you all miss out because of DH. If he's not going to get vaxxed - and I get that it's his choice - you will have to either miss out on more things or go without him.

Go go go, without a doubt. Remember it's a tourist resort, you will be one of many tourists driving around. Their cars will have snow tyres on, and there's plenty of good advice on how to drive and what you may need to do differently. Driving on the other side of the road will become the norm in minutes, I promise.

For all that money, and the limited window of time you have to take children while they still believe, you definitely should go!

Bloody hell, just seen it's a Santa trip!!

DO NOT MISS OUT ON THIS - honestly this was one of my 'bucket list' trips when the DCs were young and it will be amazing. I also think you'll find they are pretty geared up for single-parent visitors. I know you're not, I just mean you won't be the only mum on her own with DCs.

Or take an aunt/cousin/grandma/friend?

They are little and believe in all this for such a short time it would be terrible to miss it.

I’m sorry OP, that’s a really difficult position to be in. Also sorry for some of the unhelpful responses you’ve had. 🙄

If is a country with decent medical care and sensible government, I would go without DH (and tell him you are sad he won’t change his mind). I have holidayed with DC alone many times as DH is a workaholic who has last minute crises, it sucks and is a bit painful but better than no holiday.

If is a holiday in a country with dodgy medical care / government then I wouldn’t travel without DH this yr because on the small chance you or kids catch covid during travel its a lot to deal with alone overseas.

Just tell DH you’re going anyway and you’re looking really forward to it.

Loads of mums take their children abroad on their own, I have and it was fine. Driving on the other side of the road is fine but if you’re worried, maybe book an automatic car to save faffing with gear changes?

I really enjoy our holidays and only miss DH occasionally as we’re too busy enjoying ourselves. DH usually stays at home to look after animals and he’s not that keen on flying plus he doesn’t drive so it makes sense for me to go instead .

Option 4 - LTB

I’d speak to your travel agent and explore whether you could move to accommodation more in the thick of things- that way you can probably organise airport transfers and not need to hire a car.
That said, hire cars there are well set up for the weather conditions

[quote wannabeamummysobad]**@Divebar2021* @countrygirl99* yes I would cancel. DC can see Father Christmas at Westfield or lakeside....

Would I risk discontentment in my home over a holiday (however expensive)... not at all.

I'd prefer we saw U.K. Santa as a family than risk breaking up my family. Only the OP @PineapplePrincess knows if her husband is bluffing when he says "cancel the holiday".

The real question is - is OP potentially ready to risk a divorce over Santa. Personally I can't imagine telling my kids that daddy isn't home because I put a holiday before our marriage.[/quote]
She isn't risking a divorce over santa. He is risking divorce by costing the family £000. It's totally his right not to have the jab but, if he wasn't bring a total knob, he would accept that the others should go without him now the money has been committed. It's not a trip I would choose but HE did choose to spend that money on it and it's totally unfair of him to ask OP to suck it up.

Also, I am overcome by how astonishingly selfish he is for wanting you to cancel/ and for his children to miss out on such an exciting experience!

@LittleSwede

Are British citizens even allowed into Finland? Sweden very recently put UK on their red list (we recently travelled there for essential reasons) DH was only allowed into Sweden because he is married to me, who is a Swedish citizen. As Finland have been a lot stricter with their covid restrictions than Sweden so will probably follow suit very soon.

Yes they recently opened up to vaccinated brits. They have been very cautious in opening up and I'm hoping it doesn't go backwards so we can see family in Finland at Christmas.

I can’t see his logic if you’ll lose all the money if you don’t go. Surely he can’t be so selfish he doesn’t want you all to have fun without him?
I’d go even if you mainly cosy up in the lodge and go out and play in the snow. Then take occasional taxis for activities or days out.

@LittleSwede

Are British citizens even allowed into Finland? Sweden very recently put UK on their red list (we recently travelled there for essential reasons) DH was only allowed into Sweden because he is married to me, who is a Swedish citizen. As Finland have been a lot stricter with their covid restrictions than Sweden so will probably follow suit very soon.

Yes, a friend mine recently went over to see family.

They're allowed in as long as they're vaccinated.

Go without him.

His decision not to have the vaccine = his decision not to go on holiday with his family.

I'd absolutely go without him.

He needs to realise the world won't bend to his will.

If he wants to miss out on life experiences with the children then let him - but don't let yourself or the children miss out.

The driving will be fine. It's all set up out there for winter conditions (unlike the U.K.). When we went out hire care had studded tires on it. Absolutely no problem driving at all (just make sure you have a sat nav if you don't have a navigator!).

Given it's a Santa holiday I think the children will be fine. They'll likely be excited and well behaved (Santa won't meet naughty children!!!).

As for your DH - I really can't fathom his attitude but then I feel the same about anyone else who is unvaccinated (bar medical exemptions). Certainly their choice, but don't expect there aren't consequences.

Sorry just to add.

You said you're worried about his reaction if you go without him.

Frankly I think he should be worried about pressing you to miss a long awaited holiday and losing thousands of pounds.

The "burden" of upset here is totally on him.

A Santa at a shopping centre is hardly going to compare to this holiday of a lifetime. It is anxiety inducing but I would absolutely take the opportunity to go without him. He really needs to sort himself out.

OP - you should go. Your boys will behave, particularly when you say what the trip is about on the plane.

Your DH sounds like a twat. He is choosing to do this to himself and now it is affecting your long made plans in which you will lose thousands of pounds if you don't go.

I am assuming he is not a statistician, data scientist or a covid vaccine expert. His 'research' will be bull shit.

It annoys me when people just think they can analyse data (which they can't) and think they know more than Professors / Doctors / Statisticians who have dedicated their lives to this.

Please see this article written about people 'doing their own research'
www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/07/30/you-must-not-do-your-own-research-when-it-comes-to-science/

Also get him to look at fullfact.org - it's a fact checking charity - no government involvement.

It has a whole section on covid and answers a lot of queries you have stated

[quote wannabeamummysobad]**@PineapplePrincess* I agree with your DH. I would be fuming if my DH went on a family* holiday without me.

Honestly, how would you feel if the tables were turned? Personally my marriage and cohesion in my family are more important than a week away. Each to their own I guess [/quote]
Are you actually for real? You would be fuming even if it was entirely your own choice/fault that you weren't going?

Take family or a friend.

He's very foolish.

I have selfish and paranoid moments myself but I couldn't do this to my family. He has "the right to choose" to spoil his own holiday but it's not at all fair for him to spoil the children's, or yours. I agree you could go alone, or try to think of someone else you'd like to go in his place to help you with driving and the children and for company. And if you do cancel the holiday, what does he plan to do to make up for it to you and to the children? Because he owes you all.

My father's early childhood was lived under a coercive (indeed truly genocidal) government and I can assure your husband that most good parents try to give their children as happy a childhood as possible with treats and holidays in spite of government coercion. They don't just let the family lose out.

[quote wannabeamummysobad]**@Divebar2021* @countrygirl99* yes I would cancel. DC can see Father Christmas at Westfield or lakeside....

Would I risk discontentment in my home over a holiday (however expensive)... not at all.

I'd prefer we saw U.K. Santa as a family than risk breaking up my family. Only the OP @PineapplePrincess knows if her husband is bluffing when he says "cancel the holiday".

The real question is - is OP potentially ready to risk a divorce over Santa. Personally I can't imagine telling my kids that daddy isn't home because I put a holiday before our marriage.[/quote]
At that is how control starts! I won't do my best for the family and if you disagree with me, I will divorce you! You will have to tell the children "daddy isn't coming home".

So, it's OPs fault that her "D"H wants to ruin their plans, not go on an amazing santa trip and instead go to Westfields Shopping Centre, instead of the wonderful trip that was planned?

Not the "D"H because he is being a selfish arse?

Why is it OPs fault, are men there to be obeyed? He has changed his mind, so the whole family must obey him? This is 2021 not 1951 and women are allowed to make their own decisions!

Maybe OP should say because of Daddy we are not going on an amazing trip as he is a selfish arse.

Also, if Daddy does divorce OP because she dared to carry on their already made plans and not let her DC down, then good riddance. It'd better to have no Daddy at home than a selfish arse, who will divorce over something of his own making.