To be devastated that DH has to go back into the office

[ruraldream2021]

DH and I had it all planned. We were going to sell our home in the over-crowded, over-priced south east and move to a rural idyll many miles away, improving our quality of life and reducing our mortgage to nearly nothing.

DH works in a job in London and has been WFH throughout the pandemic, a situation we were given every reason to believe would continue.

We’ve had estate agents round to value our house and were literally about to put it on the market when DH gets an email from work saying that WFH is not panning out as hoped for them and he will be required back in the office four days a week, every week.

This has left our dreams in tatters as it means we will now have to remain close to London, because (understandably) DH does not want a very long commute.

DH works really hard at home and if anything he does longer hours, as he doesn’t need to commute.

I feel like our dreams have just gone up in a puff of smoke and am so devastated at the thought of staying put.

AIBU?

@TractorAndHeadphones

For all the ‘plenty of fully remote jobs’ etc I’d advise people to be quite careful. I work in tech - a sector that’s known for full remoteness even before the pandemic and was recently looking for jobs. The most highly paid ones (that weren’t very very specialised) were still London based. 2 days in the office possible but face time still needed.

Fully remote definitely comes with a lower salary from my observation.

I’m currently based in Manchester but won’t be buying a cheap house in the sticks (although we’re likely to WFH anyway). I’m basing my house buying etc plans on being able to commute into London for at most 3 days a week if needed.

This

Chances are WFH jobs pay less and they would not come with a London weighting.

For financial and professional services, which is heavily based in London, a lot of the teaching and mentoring of junior staff is best done face-to-face as the juniors learn from osmosis. People also spark ideas off each other when together and work better together if they meet each other from time to time.

It is wise that if someone wants the London weighting, to be prepared to come into the mothership 2-3 days a week.

all is not lost OP,

WFH - rural area...

Have you seen The Shining?

Now your desires have been focused, keep going for it!

@ivykaty44

Fully remote definitely comes with a lower salary from my observation

but this maybe off set by not having other much larger expenses of having to go to the office

For bigger jobs, loss of the London weighting is large. Saving the expense of a commuter ticket and office clothes is small beer compared to the difference in remuneration for a job advertised as London-based as opposed to in Manchester or Liverpool or full WFH, easily tens of thousands, often more.

@Foolsrule

I think many companies have a cheek, expecting people to work from home when it suited them and now changing their minds when they find employees like it, particularly when those employees have been more productive at home. The same companies will expect employees to revert to home working, should another lockdown occur… They can’t have it both ways!

Firstly, I don't think it is right to say that companies expected people to work from home when it suited them. It was the ONLY way work could have been done during lockdown. Employees were lucky that their job could have been done from home otherwise they would have been made redundant or furloughed or the company gone under. Not all employees were more productive at home. If the office re-opens, what's wrong with reverting to homeworking again if lockdown occurs?

It is not the company having it both ways. It is the company requiring their employees to do a job for their wages, whilst adapting to the circumstances beyond their control.

Understandable to be disappointed but you should never have based such a huge change of lifestyle based on "word on the street". DH and I moved during lockdown from the South-East to the South-West, he previously worked in the City and would never have anticipated being able to wfh permanently. Difference was that he is nearing retirement and was on a one-year contract with a company which decided already last Summer that no-one would be returning to the office until July this year. So he knew he would never be expected in the office before his contract finished in April. I actually resigned from my job but my company suggested that I continue until I needed to leave as everyone was working remotely. Now it looks like I realistically will be expected to return to the office a couple of days a week so I am probably very close to resigning.

@Foolsrule

I think many companies have a cheek, expecting people to work from home when it suited them and now changing their minds when they find employees like it, particularly when those employees have been more productive at home. The same companies will expect employees to revert to home working, should another lockdown occur… They can’t have it both ways!

It didn’t suit most companies. It was a necessity! And yes they can in fact “have it both ways”. WFH when there is no other option because of government restrictions, office when that is possible.

What might possibly stop companies “having it both ways” is if they lose good staff and struggle to recruit, which is entirely possible.

My employer has made it permanent for some job roles, not others.

“Word on the street” and “led to believe” sounds like it was office gossip that WFH would be permanent. Time to look for another job or love the house and area that was everything you wanted up until March 2020.

DH is also currently under pressure to stop working from home. I say currently because frankly I can't keep up with what his employer expects as it keeps changing! Next week it might be different.

Word on the street at my dd's former company was they would be staying permanently wfh. Didn't matter how many times she tried to explain this wasn't the case, people still ran with it and decided to move out of London because the office would be sold.
What was happening behind the scenes was a floor or two would be rented out/sold on and workers were facing redundancy. After the redundancies those left had to reapply for their jobs and told they had to go into the office. A few Had listened to the rumours, sold up and moved hours away meaning either long daily commutes or renting during the week. The ones that commuted also lost London weighting which caused another load of complaints.

Had the whole office been sold as rumoured it would have meant the entire company closed down.

He isn’t contracted to WFH.
WFH is no longer needed.

YABU

I don't think its unreasonable to feel disappointed that your plans for a better life have been upended. There seems an assurance on MN that WFH is the new normal because workers are so much more productive that way. But I think that more and more firms will move back to office based work for a variety of reasons and I don't think you will be alone in having plans changed.

I am a massive fan of working from home. I did hybrid before. My teams didn't, but now have moved to hybrid.

But I think people need to remember, that outside of a pandemic most jobs are not completely wfh. The vast majority of people will be hybrid not wfh. Most contracts that offer some working from home also include either regular days in the office or 'must come to the office when required'.

'When required' can vary hugely. I averaged 2.5 days in an office, a week, pre pandemic. But some weeks it could be 5 or even 6. Depending on the project. Sometimes it was non. And 'the office', for me varies.

So I may not be in head office for 2 weeks. Though I live 10 mins from it so it rare.

My point is that even if you get a 'wfh' change in your contract, you really need to think about amd discuss your companies expectations realistically, before you move somewhere its hard to commute from. Like pp above, who isn't moving to the sticks. If you end up having to go in a couple of times a week, is it do able. Is it really wfh or the ability to or set days. I would suggest, if you get a new contract you give it a good 6-12 months before moving to see how it actually pans out.

It was probably a little quick to start planning to move before the new Covid norm had arrived and settled. Teams and zoom can work in a pandemic and has shown what is possible. I led the way in my field of work and my team with more home working with scepticism from colleagues BUT even I have to admit there is a need for people to come into,the office at least part of the week, otherwise the discussions, relationship building and creativity that comes from unplanned discussions just doesn't happen. People still feel awkward and hoc calling someone on teams

Sorry your dreams are in tatters but I always thought it inevitable.

He'll have to run with it short term but I would start looking for another job that does support WFH.

My husbands' firm called everybody back into the office but after losing 25% of their staff they had to rescind their decision however they are having all sorts of problems trying to recruit replacment staff because nobody believes they won't change their minds again. .

Speaking as someone that has switched jobs during the pandemic, I don't think WFH is working as well as people originally thought.

I have definitely hit barriers by never meeting my team face to face.

Having said that, could you husby not pitch for 3 days a week in the office, then move to somewhere 1.5 house away, and maybe stay over or have a long commute 3 days a week? (He might be in trouble if he loses his job and can't find a firm that will accommodate him)

You were unreasonable to start plans to move not knowing what the long term result for work the pandemic will bring. I do think though that four days a week in the office seems overkill- I am sure that two days a week in almost all cases could give the social and collaborative benefits and minimise the downsides such as commuting and colleagues who have annoying traits.

I think at the start of the pandemic, wfh appeared to be going well and businesses were very keen to adopt it as a way of saving money on physical premises.

However, as time has worn on the longer term disadvantages have become apparent: increased siloed working, lack of collaboration and creativity, impact of isolation on mental health, lack of suitable workspace for lots of people, DSE problems etc

Personally I think hybrid working is going to be the answer but a requirement to come to the office at least some of the time will remain.

I'm guessing lots of businesses are rowing back on the initial enthusiasm. I can also imagine that it's going to be much more difficult to hive off all the spare office space if the market's flooded by every business doing the same thing.

There are lots of companies with flexible working patterns out there now. If this is really what you both want can he start looking at other employers?

This was always going to be the way. For those that think they will WFH forever, permanently, I doubt it very much.

I’ve said before and I’ll say it again these things go in circles. I’ve worked for a massive well known company for decades, we’ve had formal WFH policy since 1999.

It worked very well for years but then it became apparent that there needs to be office presence on a regular basis for collaboration and to stay ahead of the game.

At best, people can expect hybrid working which benefits everyone. The office environment is there and will be used but the company can reduce their estate and save money and have the flexibility of their employees wfh on occasion when they are less than well, or there’s a Covid outbreak or a public transport strike or whatever.

I am amazed at those people who have never been a home worker previously that thought this would enable them to up-sticks and move hundreds of miles away (and retain their London salary on top!).

We are also in the situation of permanent WFH not being confirmed for DH, but looking likely and have made plans based on it. But our plans are that when we were having work done to the house last August that meant we now had a small 4th bedroom, its been kitted out as a proper office, not as a guest room or playroom for the kids.

We did discuss moving, but schools are good and didn't want to disturb the dcs just now.

I do feel for people who were lead to believe this was permanent, all the way through getting firm answers from hr has been hard.

I've also been half job hunting, so many roles advertised as "fully working from home now, potentially office based part or full time in the future" - wanting to keep options open but making it harder to plan.

You are not unreasonable to feel how you do but his employer is not unreasonable either.
I can't work from home. Well I can, but the pressure it puts on the office staff is untenable. I have raised this with my senior manager who is in agreement with me.
I am not prepared to pick up the slack others working from home puts on me whilst I'm in the office.
I also raise the point that managers working from home is untenable too. I need an immediate accurate answer at times and that is never the same remotely via words on a screen than it is face to face.
The vast majority of human communication is non verbal. This needs to be done face to face.
You also cannot expect turned to pay a London weighting if you are not working in their London office.
My contract means that although I am technically based full time in office A I can be called upon to work in office B.
The pandemic screwed things up for me as office B became my full time base, causing me huge expense all of which I have had to suck up.
Sorry not much help but that's the deal.

I'm puzzled as to why you thought wfh would continue. Irrespective of what they said about liking it, selling offices, it's always been clear to me that covid was a temporary thing, and it doesn't change your employment contract.

It's no surprise that more and more people are being called into the office.

If he looking for a new job? A wfh one?

Don’t give up the dream! Try a new job. You’re in a very good position if you can move and be mortgage free nearly