To be devastated that DH has to go back into the office

[ruraldream2021]

DH and I had it all planned. We were going to sell our home in the over-crowded, over-priced south east and move to a rural idyll many miles away, improving our quality of life and reducing our mortgage to nearly nothing.

DH works in a job in London and has been WFH throughout the pandemic, a situation we were given every reason to believe would continue.

We’ve had estate agents round to value our house and were literally about to put it on the market when DH gets an email from work saying that WFH is not panning out as hoped for them and he will be required back in the office four days a week, every week.

This has left our dreams in tatters as it means we will now have to remain close to London, because (understandably) DH does not want a very long commute.

DH works really hard at home and if anything he does longer hours, as he doesn’t need to commute.

I feel like our dreams have just gone up in a puff of smoke and am so devastated at the thought of staying put.

AIBU?

@Run247

It sucks but I'm really not surprised that companies are expecting a return to normal. I think people who assumed wfh would be forever for everyone are in for a big shock. Making huge life decisions like uprooting to Devon or wherever is such a risky move without a contract to say you can be home based forever. So many people are in for a shock IMHO.

Even WITH a contract allowing WFH it's risky because no job is ever 100% safe and people still want to job hop. There's always going to be the risk that someone who's moved to Devon will struggle to get a job locally or another job that allows WFH if you're made redundant or want to job-hop for another reason. In years to come, we'll be having threads from people who've moved because of a permanent WFH contract who are trapped in that job they no longer like or without promotion prospects or whatever because there aren't any London/SE "type" of jobs in remote Devon!

OP: could you find a more rural location in the SE?

Yeah agreed @user it's a big risk as contracts can change anyway. As well as general restructures or redundancies. My husband and I have both been through redundancy processes this year and are grateful to have held onto our jobs. I can't imagine being somewhere remote and seeking a similar salaried job locally or WFH. And we'd be likely be priced out of London if we move.. even if we save or invest our capital gains carefully.

@Planetsandstars

Without wanting to sound overly combative though *@PinkTonic* you did presumably choose to take jobs nearly two hours away.

Why be combative at all? It’s an interesting topic with significant social implications and many perspectives. I’m fine with my new arrangements, but I have plenty of space to wfh without impacting on my home environment and will be more than content with occasional office visits.

I’m acutely aware that this is not the case for many people. I know people struggling with wfh, stuck working from their bedroom, and talking with friends in other organisations I know that whatever decision an employer makes, some employees will be negatively impacted. My DD is an HR manager and her org wants people mainly office based. Absolute uproar, and hundreds of flexible working requests, some reasonable but some citing caring responsibilities. Her own colleague refusing to comply for pet based reasons. It’s never been ok not to have care in place when wfh.

I have staff who think they don’t need wraparound childcare, or a quiet working environment, but I consider my ability to have that manager conversation around expectations to have been seriously undermined by the fact that our employer has massively imposed on the employee’s personal life/space. Lots of people unhappy for a variety of reasons tbh.

* I work in the public sector and it’s written in to contracts for homeworkers that they must have suitable childcare during working hours*

^^This

I am currently WFH and would like to stay that way however we have a new mum currently on maternity leave who thinks she will be able to cope with baby 6 mths and her full time job, she’s an intelligent woman, I can only think she’s still in baby brain mode and I’m actually quite pissed off about it, as that is a sure fire way to get us all back in the office once the leadership team get to know about it.

I hate the phrase 'baby brain'

If it actually exists (which it doesn't) then women should stay out of the workplace for a few years after giving birth.

If it doesn't exist, saying it is a spectacular own goal for women.

Was expecting the usual schadenfreud type comments. There’s a lot of hateful envy on MN for anyone who dared to think the WFH which has actually been very successful for a lot of companies, might continue behind Covid.

My employer toward the end of last year announced they would be looking to reduce the amount of time people were in the office, in line with most of our competitors who have had more flexible working patterns long before Covid. This was supported by the majority of the directors in the office and was something about half the staff wanted. Then about a month ago they about turned and decided that no, the dinosaur at the top had decided that he wanted to return to the ridiculous presenteeism that pervaded the company and actually did nothing to benefit office productivity. They recalled everyone back in to the office and the people who do work stuff for me have gone from actually meeting deadlines to fucking about when there are no managers in the office and barely doing any work.

They have agreed that I can continue WFH with me eventually only going in a couple of days a week because I told them that’s what I needed and they know fine I could go and get a job elsewhere and they’d be left in the shit.

If OP’s company had made similar noises and now have changed their tune, it is hardly their fault for being upset their plans have changed. Employers need to move with the times and realise that being at a desk 9-5 isn’t what people want and that many jobs can just as easily be done remotely.

In that case surely companies can just simply outsource abroad where labour is cheaper.

@CatM1nt

In that case surely companies can just simply outsource abroad where labour is cheaper.

To be fair, this argument gets made on every WFH thread. If you’ve ever worked for a company who outsources abroad, it’s often a disaster. I worked for a large company who sent all their IT jobs to India because they could hire people with computer science degrees super cheaply. Within two years, those jobs were back in the UK because they were spending so much on local freelancers to clear up mistakes.

To be fair @BoredZelda I do think there’s often a huge difference in how WFH is perceived by the person working and by clients / employers / other family members.

I can’t WFH but I certainly don’t mind it others do, it makes my own commute more enjoyable if the roads are quieter.

But sometimes it doesn’t work awfully well, especially when homes become workplaces which is my main bugbear about it.

I don’t think it’s good for employees to be entitled which in my book is expecting their full pay for not delivering what they are contracted to do during the times they are contracted to work

If I do the work I am supposed to, to the required standard and framework, that is all that matters. Whether I am in the office, home, or a cafe on Bournemouth beach is, and should be, of no interest to anyone. However, that's my job and it won't apply to everyone.

It seems a bit strange that,on Mumsnet anyway, everybody says they are SO much more productive when WFH. Yet dinosaur management can't see it.

Is it possible, dare I say it, that not everybody is as productive as they like to think they are and also that some management actually do have a bigger picture and it's not as rosy as some might think.

@AICM

It seems a bit strange that,on Mumsnet anyway, everybody says they are SO much more productive when WFH. Yet dinosaur management can't see it.

Is it possible, dare I say it, that not everybody is as productive as they like to think they are and also that some management actually do have a bigger picture and it's not as rosy as some might think.

I suspect this is exactly it!

@AICM

It seems a bit strange that,on Mumsnet anyway, everybody says they are SO much more productive when WFH. Yet dinosaur management can't see it.

Is it possible, dare I say it, that not everybody is as productive as they like to think they are and also that some management actually do have a bigger picture and it's not as rosy as some might think.

Funny isnt it!!

@AICM

I hate the phrase 'baby brain'

I can assure you this was meant in a light hearted way, I’m struggling to find the words to describe an intelligent woman who thinks she can take care of her baby whilst working a full time role in a global company.

I have DC and I know it does not work, to the detriment of work and DC, not being able to give them your full attention.

My workplace is offering choice to all desk-based workers.

• return to the office - full or part time
• work from home
• flexible pick and chose

It's written into everyone's contracts that it is a choice.

It has meant that we have been able to retain good colleagues who have relocated outwith commuting distance and it has expanded the no. of candidates applying for jobs.

All our staff have evidenced that they can be more than trusted to deliver whilst wfh in the last 18 months.

We are providing office work space for those who prefer that to wfh and also collaborative meeting spaces for those who wish to connect in person with colleagues.

We were committed to family-friendly, life-friendly, flexible working before the pandemic but have fully embraced it now.

@CatM1nt

In that case surely companies can just simply outsource abroad where labour is cheaper.

No they can't because the skills they need are in the UK. And if that were the case, I would have been outsourced back in about 2013!

That said, it does mean that you can draw your staff from a much wider pool - eg why recruit someone in London if you can get someone better from Inverness? And that's not a bad thing. And it's not a bad thing for people in other parts of the country. But they won't sack existing staff who do a good job, it just means new recruitment will be from a wider geographical area.

Co working space costs money. Who pays? It’s not fair to ask the employee and makes no sense for an employers to pay for space without the benefits they’d get from having people in a designated office

Well, if I work in a local wo-working space it's £25 a week plus petrol for 10 miles a day.

If I commute to the office it's £35 a day. Hmmmmm, I wonder which option is cheaper? As it is, I can work from home because I have a garden office. But there are plenty of cheap and less cheap co-working spaces around.

Well, if I work in a local wo-working space it's £25 a week plus petrol for 10 miles a day.

If I commute to the office it's £35 a day. Hmmmmm, I wonder which option is cheaper?

And not everyone has your exact set up, do they?

Plenty of people walk or cycle or work. Plenty of people don’t have co-working spaces that close to their home.

Bottom line is paying for co-working space is not something the vast majority will want to have to do,

But there are plenty of cheap and less cheap co-working spaces around.

And office space is free to the employee.

@TheKeatingFive

But there are plenty of cheap and less cheap co-working spaces around.

And office space is free to the employee.

Exactly.

No co-working office space in my small town, the nearest ones are right next door to my normal city centre workplace. So same commuting costs but with the added benefit of paying for my desk on top

@AICM

It seems a bit strange that,on Mumsnet anyway, everybody says they are SO much more productive when WFH. Yet dinosaur management can't see it.

Is it possible, dare I say it, that not everybody is as productive as they like to think they are and also that some management actually do have a bigger picture and it's not as rosy as some might think.

I don't claim to be more productive - but i am certainly no less productive working from home. The team of people I work with/for is scattered all over the world, so making us all attend an office somewhere wouldn't make any sense. There are obviously some workshy people at home and in offices - some bosses are dinosaurs, some aren't. No one size fits all - some bosses may think they have to summon everyone back to the office - some will be right, some will be wrong.

Well, if I work in a local wo-working space it's £25 a week plus petrol for 10 miles a day.

If I commute to the office it's £35 a day. Hmmmmm, I wonder which option is cheaper? As it is, I can work from home because I have a garden office. But there are plenty of cheap and less cheap co-working spaces around.

No one I work with pays £35 a day to commute. My commute costs £0. We’d all instantly be on a net loss if we had to use a co-working space, that’s before considering the fact it would be pointless unless we all used the same one…in which case we might as well be in an office! I’d be pretty pissed off if my employer permanently shunted those costs on to me because they’d taken life decisions that involved an expensive commute and assumed everyone else had too.

I can assure you this was meant in a light hearted way, I’m struggling to find the words to describe an intelligent woman who thinks she can take care of her baby whilst working a full time role in a global company.

I suspect she just has an easy baby and not enough experiences of babies to realise how fast they change. I think I could make a decent fist of working with my 6 month old as he is right now - he takes long naps, has a predictable feeding routine that I could work around and will play for ages if I sit passing him toys. I can imagine thinking it would be doable with a bit of catching up in the evening. But this is my second, so I know that the stage where they're big enough to play with something for a bit but not yet mobile lasts about 5 minutes, it isn't something to plan your life around!

So many WFH jobs out there. I hope he can find a new one. Sounds like his business is stuck in the past and will likely go down the pan due to its stance