To be devastated that DH has to go back into the office

[ruraldream2021]

DH and I had it all planned. We were going to sell our home in the over-crowded, over-priced south east and move to a rural idyll many miles away, improving our quality of life and reducing our mortgage to nearly nothing.

DH works in a job in London and has been WFH throughout the pandemic, a situation we were given every reason to believe would continue.

We’ve had estate agents round to value our house and were literally about to put it on the market when DH gets an email from work saying that WFH is not panning out as hoped for them and he will be required back in the office four days a week, every week.

This has left our dreams in tatters as it means we will now have to remain close to London, because (understandably) DH does not want a very long commute.

DH works really hard at home and if anything he does longer hours, as he doesn’t need to commute.

I feel like our dreams have just gone up in a puff of smoke and am so devastated at the thought of staying put.

AIBU?

Aww. But it will happen.. just not imminently.

I would treat this as a huge but positive turning point. Your new plans seemed to excite you so why not follow them. Your DH news is just a curve ball. Look at still following your plans but on a slightly different time frame.
Do you read at all @ruraldream2021?
Have a look at Paul Mort Talks Sh*t - as you can tell he does swear but the content is very inspiring. Talks you through making big life changes & the obstacles we face along the way. Good to listen to as an audio book too.
Good luck OP, I hope you get what you want.

Check out the recent information from Google about where it is heading. They will allow flexibility of remote working but that comes with a substantial reduction in salary on a sliding scale based on how far removed you are from the office location. Seems lots of companies are looking into this so seems to offer little benefit if people want to up and move for cheaper real estate as they will have less $$ to make repayments and wouldn’t seem to be of much advantage unless they had a lot of equity in current property.

I think the last 18 months has made a lot of home workers quite entitled. They forget that they are paid by an employer to do a job and they can’t just make huge decisions like where they are based - that why some people choose to be self employed, because they don’t want to be answerable to someone else who pays their wages and calls the shots. For all the people insisting they are more productive at home, if that’s actually the case then businesses won’t be calling you back in because no company wants to pay the costs of full capacity offices if they can get the same output with people working remotely.

I think a lot of people have worked very hard at home but equally some have taken the piss and are now throwing a strop that they’re not being allowed to continue doing so. A relative of mine is spitting feathers because she has just been recalled to her office full time. She is contracted to work full time hours yet has no childcare for her primary aged children and picks them up from school every day. Plus I often hear that she’s at another relatives house during the day (at 11am for coffee, apparently it’s her lunch break ). I have to bite my tongue when she is complaining about how unfair it is!

OP, your husband should definitely try to negotiate with his employer in the first instance. But as others have said, there are lots of WFH/hybrid opportunities out there. My employer (large public sector) is going hybrid and has realised if we tried to get everyone back 5 days per week, we would be out of step with other local employers, would lose staff, and would be unattractive to new applicants

If you can sell up and live mortgage free somewhere else, then do it, and just get another job?

I know exactly how you feel.

Both me and my partner were working from home. Partner is continuing to (going in once every 2 weeks) but my workplace as told us we all need to get back in the office too and the full 5 days a week.

We had dreams of being able to sell up and move to the coast but obviously, that can't happen now. It's more frustrating than anything - we've been working from home all this time perfectly well and the benefits it brings has been took from under us.

I know we should both be grateful that we still even have jobs and I really am but it's ok to feel a little heartbroken when you've set your mind on something.

@user1477391263

I’d also add that wfh has been awful for the younger staff who started with us during the pandemic. They essentially came in, we’re issued a laptop and have spent the last year in their bedroom. They have been delighted to come back to a proper office with social interaction and people to chat to, that they can bounce ideas off.

I totally agree. A mixture of onsite and WFH is one thing. Permanent 100% WFH has real costs, esp for younger employees who often worked in tiny, cramped spaces, have no mentors, and will find it very hard to get promoted and rise up the career ladder.

As someone who has WFH since 2009 and risen quite nicely through my chosen industry ever since, this faux-concern for the young people is really grating.

You can network online (I found this much more effective than IRL networking events or trying to do office small talk).

You can arrange coffees/lunches/drinks with mentors even if you don't see them every day. Again more effective as neither of you is distracted by actual work.

I have lived in a variety of tiny, cramped houseshares and without exception they were all better working environments for me than the open-plan offices I've had the misfortune of being trapped in.

@wrenfern

I know exactly how you feel.

Both me and my partner were working from home. Partner is continuing to (going in once every 2 weeks) but my workplace as told us we all need to get back in the office too and the full 5 days a week.

We had dreams of being able to sell up and move to the coast but obviously, that can't happen now. It's more frustrating than anything - we've been working from home all this time perfectly well and the benefits it brings has been took from under us.

I know we should both be grateful that we still even have jobs and I really am but it's ok to feel a little heartbroken when you've set your mind on something.

Why can’t it happen now at all? If you’ve got your heart set on it, wouldn’t you look for other jobs in that area or fully remote working confirmed? I understand the disappointment but if people really want to make this life change they still can, they just won’t be able to do it with their existing employer.

If this has shined a light on lifestyle changes you want to make then go ahead and make them, but it sounds like WFH from DH's current role won't be part of that.

I think you were daft to place long-term plans on something that has quite frankly made your lives much easier for the last 18 months. It wasn’t meant to be permanent. Your husband signed up to this job before these arrangements. I agree with previous posters- use this as a platform to transform things in a secure way for yourselves.

Check out the recent information from Google about where it is heading. They will allow flexibility of remote working but that comes with a substantial reduction in salary on a sliding scale based on how far removed you are from the office location

It's not quite so straightforward as that is Google in the US. Costs do vary considerably as someone moving from California to Texas will going from one of the highest income tax states to no income tax.

In the UK our employment law means drastic changes to salaries without employee agreement would be a breach of t&c's.

I think the last 18 months has made a lot of home workers quite entitled.

Why is this a bad thing? It's good for employees to have power.

@countrytown

I think the last 18 months has made a lot of home workers quite entitled.

Why is this a bad thing? It's good for employees to have power.

Exactly.

I think a lot of people are very blind to the history of workers fighting for better working conditions - this has enabled them to have cushy office jobs in comfortable settings.

WFH enabling a better work-life balance is the next step of this.

It wasn’t done to give the employees benefits, it was done for covid reasons. Now everything is open and no restrictions people need to go back to workplaces.
Many may not want to but it’s the employers decision at the end of the day and if many are paying rent, leases etc then they will want buildings used.

WFH enabling a better work-life balance is the next step of this.

WFH is only enabling better work-life balance for well paid workers in cushy office jobs in comfortable settings. It’s doing shit all for most workers in the population.

We're the same OP. DH was told in November that they would only be required in the office realistically once a month but they would now be predominantly WFH. Unfortunately this was over a centre call rather than in written form.

They've now backtracked on this which has thrown a massive spanner in the works in terms of childcare etc

Anyone thinking about permanent home working needs to realise that it doesn’t mean you can just move to the arse end of nowhere and never expect to leave your spare room/garden hammock/beach hut again! You will still need to attend meetings, training, possibly see clients depending on your role. We aren’t any longer in lockdown conditions so the ‘stay at home’ rule can’t be expected to be the norm any more.

I’ve been fully home working for over 15 years. But I still go to the office about once a week on average (some weeks three days) for meetings and duty, plus doing all my site visits in the patch the office covers - so am out maybe 2-3 days a week. I chose carefully where to live so that I could get to the office and around the patch easily without long commutes; I could have moved to my favourite bit of coast because it’s still in our patch, but it would have meant my office commute taking 2.5 hours each way. Site visits could have taken four hours each way.

Very few jobs allow you to never interact with people in person ever again, and few organisations will be happy never to see your face in their buildings. And if they do it’s a lonely life which can lead to mental ill health in the long term.

@Chihuahuacat

You’re not unreasonable to be disappointed, but you can’t expect to keep a London salary without the downsides.

In my industry London jobs pay about £15k more (for the exact same role - we work in national teams). I’m slightly peeved that people thought they could keep the £15k and move to the sticks.

I live in the sticks and took the trade off of the lower salary - you can’t have the cake and eat it!

I have to say that I agree with this- if you have a London weighting- which paid due to the high costs of property/renting etc- it is a bit much to expect to move away but keep the extra. It is obviously up to the employer whether each employee is worth the extra, but i think you might find that if employers allow exclusive wfh, where employees can live anywhere, that the London weighting will disappear which seems reasonable.

Op is not unreasonable to be disappointed, but at least found out before the move. I think anyone planning to do this would be best to make sure their contract is changed to show exclusive wfh/specifying how many days in office if a combination. I don’t think wfh has been wonderful/more efficient for all employees or all employers, contrary to some previous posters- i think it is a mixed bag. I know one business where they are finding that it works well enough in established teams, who all know their jobs inside out, but less established teams/new employees have a few more challenges. They are planning a trial of a hybrid model but if that does not work they will revert. Some employees may leave, I suppose, but few people are irreplaceable (in my experience). They won’t be issuing new contracts tying them to wfh entitlement until they’ve made a decision, and even then may put a clause in stating that their may be a requirement to come into the premises if required (and no working abroad, as in some jurisdictions there can be tax implications for the employers, even if the employers are not registered/located in that country).

All of my staff are on a hybrid rota 50/50 WFH and office. This is down from 100% WFH

I’ve had an email from a member of staff to say she won’t be able to do that as she’s pulled her children out of childcare and has them at home with her all day now . I’m not sure where to even start with that one

Rural idylls have a downside. Harder for you to find work if and when you need it. You will be taxi driver to your children, if you have them, and two cars are usually a necessity.

You can always retire to the country when the time comes, I guess.

Well the 5% rail increase should help incentivise people back to the office

It is unreasonable to expect that productivity will remain the same overall if everyone works from home. It's hard to train new people, share expertise and maintain momentum. So it was unreasonable to expect that wfh would continue - a hybrid model is the best anyone can hope for over time. It's also true (as suggested by Sunak) that your opportunities for advancement will be reduced if you choose to work from home more than others in a hybrid model.

You aren't unreasonable to be disappointed though. Just look at a different way to achieve your dream - new job etc.

As someone who worked longer hours to the detriment of family and my time. I'm glad to get my life back. I no longer wfh unless it suits me.
I'd question the long term health of those that work longer hours of wfh and have not got the ability to see home as a respite from work

@PashaandMe

All of my staff are on a hybrid rota 50/50 WFH and office. This is down from 100% WFH

I’ve had an email from a member of staff to say she won’t be able to do that as she’s pulled her children out of childcare and has them at home with her all day now . I’m not sure where to even start with that one

You need a policy about this. I work in the public sector and it’s written in to contracts for homeworkers that they must have suitable childcare during working hours. If you’re doing new contracts for hybrid working then definitely talk to someone about getting that written in. It’s so unfair on the childless if those with children are expected to give less than they are to their jobs.