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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - employee always booking appointments during the work day

224 replies

Glitttter · 17/08/2021 15:03

I am a small business owner with 3 members of staff. We've been working remotely like so many other people. 2 of them are brilliant, dedicated etc. the third woman just seems not to pull her weight, which might be the basis of why Im annoyed. However, recently, she keeps needing to start work late, disappear in the day, or leave early, for dentist/eye test/routine check up appointments.

My gripe is that she works part time, but always seems to arrange these routine appointments for days when she's working. AIBU to expect her to arrange appointments in her own time - at least mostly - instead of missing work to do so?

OP posts:
RedMarauder · 18/08/2021 07:38

@honeybuns007

Employers have no legal requirement to give time off - paid or unpaid for routine medical or dental appointments. Tell her she can't and give her official warnings if she goes anyway and/or tell her that if she does, she will have pay deducted.
They may not be routine even if it appears to be a check up.

She may turn around and say she has a long term medical condition which falls under the equality act.

lovemelongtime · 18/08/2021 07:46

As a manager you need to sit her down and have a frank discussion. Outline what is acceptable and not. Explain clearly that as a small business you try to be flexible but her behavior and actions had an impact. Don't wait till Christmas. She is pushing boundaries and you need to stop it now.

MeridasMum · 18/08/2021 09:41

Another one here to say don't wait till Xmas. Anything raised in an annual
Performance Review shouldn't ever be a surprise to the employee. Concerns need to be addressed as they occur, not months later when they're dead and gone.

You've had great advice on what to say to the staff member. It's difficult to have these conversations , especially if you haven't had much experience. But they get easier the more you do them. And you're putting down a marker (to all staff) that these are your expectations and you are no pushover.

TractorAndHeadphones · 18/08/2021 10:51

@camelfinger

It does sound like she’s taking the piss.

However, it does seem unfair in a way to try to get part timers to have appointments on their days off, whereas full timers get to swan in late and announce that they’ll make the time up, which is probably not policed. I always got pissed off when people needed to take the car into the garage, never seemed to want to take annual leave for that one.

But the issue here isn’t the time off is it? It’s that management is inefficient and isn’t making sure that time is made up.

It’s very hard to be calculative because there’s always going to be an imbalance. Part-timers do only the hours they’re paid - full-timers never get to finish on time and have to cover emergencies. Full timers have more time to ‘slack’ during the day ; part-timers have to condense their work (because in a lot of jobs half the hours don’t mean an exact half the work - groundwork must be done that takes an equal amount of time whether you’re part or full time).

A competent manager knows their employees and can judge which is taking the piss. In my team as long as the deliverables meet an appropriate standard everyone can have as much time off as they like. I have people who deliver in 3 hours as much as other people deliver in 2 days - why would I begrudge the former some slack?

TractorAndHeadphones · 18/08/2021 10:52

Also to add - of course not in hourly jobs like for example a receptionist where cover is needed

SpeckledlyHen · 18/08/2021 10:56

I think she is taking the absolute piss and I would be totally ashamed of myself if I did that during working hours. Yes, I get "some" appointments can't be helped and you get what you are given, but a contact lens check is generally annually or bi annually. Most opticians work Saturdays and Sundays now, or at least you take a first thing in the morning appointment to minimise the time out. To then take a lunch hour also is just mind blowing to me. I could not even imagine taking that level of piss out of an employer! She is coasting and taking the mickey out of your generous nature. Awful

Hawkins001 · 18/08/2021 11:12

All the best op

MadeOfStarStuff · 18/08/2021 11:24

If one employee is constantly allowed to take the piss and not pull their weight, the other two will get pissed if by the poor management and May end up leaving.

Don’t wait til Christmas. Put a policy in place and stick to it and start performance managing now so you can follow the due process.

HadEnough798 · 18/08/2021 11:29

If you want to part ways, and you think she's applying for jobs, wouldn't you be shooting yourself in the foot if you clamped down on it?

If you want her to go, she probably can sense that and also wants to leave. You could facilitate it and help speed her on her way?

somuchcoffeeneeded · 18/08/2021 11:31

Just say no! Yes there’s a backlog with appointments for dentists etc but my husband WFH and used his lunch hour for his appointment. It’s not hard!

BrilloPaddy · 18/08/2021 11:38

Small business owner here.

We recently brought in new staff contracts (old ones were outdated) and made sure that things like this were covered. As a rule, if they need urgent appointments during working hours, they have to make the time up again and we do sometimes say No if the workload will suffer.

We paid around £400 inc VAT for an independent HR person to do them, and they were all tailored to the business (quite niche). As we have under 10 staff, it's all in the contracts rather than an employee handbook. A solicitor quoted around £5k............

ACAS are spectacularly unhelpful to business owers and are there solely for employees, we've found over the years.

MaMelon · 18/08/2021 11:59

@BrilloPaddy

Small business owner here.

We recently brought in new staff contracts (old ones were outdated) and made sure that things like this were covered. As a rule, if they need urgent appointments during working hours, they have to make the time up again and we do sometimes say No if the workload will suffer.

We paid around £400 inc VAT for an independent HR person to do them, and they were all tailored to the business (quite niche). As we have under 10 staff, it's all in the contracts rather than an employee handbook. A solicitor quoted around £5k............

ACAS are spectacularly unhelpful to business owers and are there solely for employees, we've found over the years.

You say no to urgent appointments? Crikey - that sounds Draconian. Routine appointments yes, but urgent appointments are unavoidable.
BrilloPaddy · 18/08/2021 12:17

They start and finish early, so each day allows them at least an hour during working hours at the end of the day for appointments including emergencies. Of course, some are unavoidable and we'll work round those.

Like the OP, there are certain people who will take advantage. We've got 1 staff member whose DW doesn't speak English well and since they've had a baby, the requests for GP/HV/hospital etc had got beyond a joke. It was impacting workflow and morale.

Gwenhwyfar · 18/08/2021 12:34

"Routine appointments yes, but urgent appointments are unavoidable."

Pretty awful to prevent someone accessing medical care. What do they have to do? Give up their job? If you don't attend a hospital appointment you're put back to the bottom of the list. GP - I suppose you could be struck off their list!

Gwenhwyfar · 18/08/2021 12:35

@somuchcoffeeneeded

Just say no! Yes there’s a backlog with appointments for dentists etc but my husband WFH and used his lunch hour for his appointment. It’s not hard!
Many people wouldn't be able to get to the dentist's, be there and come back in an hour!
Gwenhwyfar · 18/08/2021 12:36

"it does seem unfair in a way to try to get part timers to have appointments on their days off, whereas full timers get to swan in late and announce that they’ll make the time up"

But if you work full time you have less opportunity to do all these things than someone who works part time.

fishonabicycle · 18/08/2021 12:38

I have worked part time for years, and word never dream of booking an appointment for dentist etc on my work days!

igelkott2021 · 18/08/2021 12:55

My gripe is that she works part time, but always seems to arrange these routine appointments for days when she's working. AIBU to expect her to arrange appointments in her own time - at least mostly - instead of missing work to do so

No, not unreasonable at all. I work part-time and arrange appointments outside working hours.

The exception would be hospital appointments which you generally can't choose and a certain procedure or clinic might only run on certain days. Or a last minute GP appointment (does anyone still know what one of those is?)

Also if an employee is pregnant they may find midwife appointments can only be made on a certain day, I could only have mine on Wednesdays.

But general routine appointments - no excuses.

igelkott2021 · 18/08/2021 12:57

As a rule, if they need urgent appointments during working hours, they have to make the time up again and we do sometimes say No if the workload will suffer

I trust you never expect them to work over their allotted hours in that case! Or does flexibility only work one way?

ThisIsStartingToBoreMe · 18/08/2021 12:57

OP is she on tax credits? There are a tiny minority of people who take part time jobs not because they want to work but because they want all the tax credits/housing benefit/council tax support/free school meals/free prescriptions that come with having a part time job and rack up to a considerable amount. Then they ring in sick for work constantly.

In any case I agree with the others, just say no, book those appointments on your day off. I'd also be asking for documentary evidence of appointments.

Dontwatchfootball · 18/08/2021 13:02

I think you need to let her know that you are aware of how many appointments there have been and that in future time off for these need to be made outside of work hours, agreed in advance if they cant be, and that if time is taken away from work, it is to be made up at other times.

SVlover · 18/08/2021 13:04

Is she getting paid for her time out? If so, you might have to revise this policy. Tell your staff to make appointments outside working hours when possible. Maybe she’s out looking at a job interview? Running a small business is tough

ThisIsStartingToBoreMe · 18/08/2021 13:07

ACAS are spectacularly unhelpful to business owers and are there solely for employees, we've found over the years.

ACAS aren't even that helpful for employees to be honest. Since google was invented there's nothing ACAS can tell you that google cant.

2bazookas · 18/08/2021 13:17

She's at it. Tell her she can either, conduct her private life on non-work days, or leave.

Lavender24 · 18/08/2021 13:22

She's definitely taking the piss. I work part time for a small company too and I always try to make my appointments on my days off. If it's not possible to rearrange an appt I will work through lunch or use holiday.