AIBU - employee always booking appointments during the work day

[Glitttter]

I am a small business owner with 3 members of staff. We've been working remotely like so many other people. 2 of them are brilliant, dedicated etc. the third woman just seems not to pull her weight, which might be the basis of why Im annoyed. However, recently, she keeps needing to start work late, disappear in the day, or leave early, for dentist/eye test/routine check up appointments.

My gripe is that she works part time, but always seems to arrange these routine appointments for days when she's working. AIBU to expect her to arrange appointments in her own time - at least mostly - instead of missing work to do so?

Can't believe people are recommending firing when it's not at all clear that you've given her feedback or clear boundaries on this or any other topic!

First, you can say no to appointments. Simple as that. At the moment it doesn't sound like she's doing anything more than you are letting her get away with with no challenge.

Second, let her know, explicitly, your feedback on her on this and any other performance issues. Depending on your management style this might be more like coaching or more direct. But she cannot correct what she doesn't know is wrong and you can't expect her to be psychic. Even if it's obvious to you, it might not be obvious to her.

Third, you own the business, the timing of performance reviews is directly under your control! Waiting to Christmas is crazy! You should be giving informal feedback all the time but if she doesn't respond to that, and quickly, you can start a more formal process very shortly, you shouldn't wait.

Yes, any one of those stages involves an awkward conversation. But they don't have to take months. And any of them will be a hell of a lot less awkward that firing her.

You may then need to fire her. But if you've done the above, that will be OK and you will have given her - and yourself - the best shot at fixing things first.

Don’t leave it to fester, speak to her today.

Your other staff will have noticed that she’s getting away with murder and they’re the ones who will start to feel resentful and begin looking for another job if you don’t start acting like a boss and sort this out now.

In your shoes, I’d be looking to reduce her hours and manage her out.

If she is only working 3 days then she is taking the piss. When I was part time and had hospital appointments, I told my manager as far in advance as possible so that she could schedule my days off for those days. Worked out better for everyone as at certain times we had to have two members of staff on. She has 4 other days to see the dentist /optician or chiropractor and I think you need to make it clear to her that the current situation cannot continue.

Sounds like she doesn't have children to look after (or elderly family she spends all day with) on the days she doesn't work? In which case she should be arranging them when she's off if possible.

I'd be implementing a policy that appointments need taking from lunch breaks or time making up, unless related to pregnancy or disability.

She is definitely taking the piss. The example of her leaving at 10:30 for an appointment and THEN taking her lunch break is absolutely unbelievable! You're the boss; tell her she is expected to work the hours she gets paid for and that means making up the hours she misses with these so-called appointments. I would be livid if she was my employee. Please don't wait for her next review, this needs to be addressed now. Good luck

If she's always been allowed to do this without any fuss, it's hardly surprising she's continuing to do so.
If you don't have a written policy on this, perhaps now is the time to get one written and implemented.

@PeachCottonTree

YANBU. Opticians are open at the weekend and I’ve never had a problem getting an appointment, even at short notice. Definitely shouldn’t be asking for paid time off to go to the opticians unless it’s a medical emergency.

I can't get a contact lense check at the weekend and I've tried for years with different opticians.

However I can have my eye test and contact lense check done at the same appointment even though I have to see 2 different opticians. I'm am just booked in for the eye test then for the contact lense check.

If there is an issue with prescription I then may have another appointment in a couple of days to a weeks time.

Of course you can change NHS hospital appointments. I’ve done it plenty of times. I also recall changing my ante-natal scans a few times. Most dentists are open well into the evenings opticians weekends. It’s ridiculous to take time off work unless an urgent situation.

Just say no. What’s she going to do?

Honestly, all the people suggesting sacking her or giving written warnings!
Why not actually speak to her about it? If you're not happy then tell her, it's not complicated!
It's part of being a manager, and a pretty basic part at that. Also, it's very poor management practice to wait until an appraisal to raise something.
Don't you ever have one-to-ones with your staff?

Ask her if she needs to reduce to 2 days if she is struggling with all her appointments?

I work in HR. You need to pick this up with her now and not wait for her appraisal.

There is no legal right to paid time off to attend medical appointments. My suggestion would be to make her take it as annual leave, unpaid leave or, making the time up. You can also reject any requests for time off if you can't accommodate it. You have to be careful if the appointments are related to a disability, but even then, they are only entitled to unpaid time off

I've advised managers on this a number of times over the years and as soon as staff are offered unpaid leave for future appointments, the appointments mysteriously stop.

@TheVeryThing

Honestly, all the people suggesting sacking her or giving written warnings! Why not actually speak to her about it? If you're not happy then tell her, it's not complicated! It's part of being a manager, and a pretty basic part at that. Also, it's very poor management practice to wait until an appraisal to raise something. Don't you ever have one-to-ones with your staff?

This. It's not hard.

Just sit down and have a chat about it, like an actual manager.

She might be taking the piss. It might be that like many dentists/opticians they are working through backlogs and so appointments are hard to come by. She might have other things going on she doesn't want to disclose. OP isn't going to know without asking.

Ask her if she wants to to take the time as part of her annual leave or alternatively you'll need her to make up the 2 hours or whatever she owes you this week. That's assuming you are OK with a flexitime approach. If she's been doing this for a while without you having raised it as an issue, she might assume it's OK, so spell out your position now. In writing.

I work in education.

Hospital apts are given off although we are asked to try and schedule outside school hours.

Routine apts should be made outside work hours or school holidays.

Emergency dentist - fine. 6 month check up you are unlikely to have it authorised and it certainly would be unpaid.

It's all in the policy.

You need to be proactive with this and discuss it.

Offering a flexi time approach works well in the approach - expecting to work extra hours to make it up or use leave is not unreasonable.

I wfh and nip out for half hour for the vet Appt or to go to the post office etc...but my work is up to scratch and I'll work in the evening or later/earlier to even it up. I'd hate it (and prob leave) if I couldn't work this way - it's a 2 way process, I've earnt the trust and, i also can go in on a day off to support busy periods or do extra hours in the evening so we all win.

You are the employer and you set the tone. Decide on your policy and get it written in place, without it you are going to find challenging it a lot harder.

Just to put the other side here. Although it sounds in this case as if there is an inexplicably large number of appointments, some medical things have to happen during the working week. That’s just the NHS.

If full time staff would be given time out of their paid hours to attend these, why should the same not apply to PT staff? Maybe pro rata, but to insist PTers always use their own time when FT get paid time, seems unfair.

I don't know whether someone has already said this, but make clear or change her contract so that she is contracted to work x hours per week. You are happy to be flexible, but if she needs to extend lunch or start late to fit in an appointment then she makes the time up later. Hourly paid staff are only paid for the hours they work. This is very different to a zero hours contract as you will have a usual amount of hours they are expected to work, but if they are unavailable to work the expected hours then they are not paid for them. Have a HR professional draft out the letter firming up arrangements / change of contact for you, so that you don't make any silly mistakes.

I worked FT for 30 years and O.8 in recent years. I have never made a dental or eye appointment on a working day and only had medical appointments if I was off work.

If you have a record of the amount of time she has taken off for appointments (not pregnancy related) in the last two(?) years, then could you meet with her and show her, explaining that it adds up to X days of paid days she wasn't working and that you need to put a new policy in place going forward as this is unsustainable for your business?

New policy could be similar to ones PPs have mentioned - eg. appointments to be made outside working hours or taken as leave. Or could she work on a different day to make up the time? Also, time off for appointments must be requested, and permission given (or not).

Alternatively, don't talk to her individually (yet), just bring in the new policy and share it with everyone.

You certainly need to discuss her absence rate as part of her performance review.

@Glitttter

Hi, Thanks for your responses. It's helpful. We don't have a policy because we're so small and I've never needed one before. I like to think we're quite flexible, and if she put the time in in other ways I think I'd feel differently. But, for eg. today, she had a 'contact lens appointment' at 11am, and then tacked on some lunch, so left at 10:30, and came back at 1pm!

Honestly, I wish we could part ways, but it's not so simple because of the process I'd need to go through (can't say much more without specifics sorry). Might be time to start the process though.

Her next performance review is just before Christmas. Think I need to grit my teeth and make it clear we can't afford, and dont want, people who are here for the ride.

I'd just ask whether she'd prefer to make up the time all at once or spread over a few days...

Seems odd if PT. I do take time off for appointments but I'm FT with a chronic condition AND I use annual leave for it!

Very easy to deal with this - she either covers it with annual leave, unpaid leave or moves her working day.
There is also no legal requirement, to my knowledge, for employers to allow emergency medical appointments in work time. You'd never win employer of the year but if you wished to you could insist on her taking all appointments out of her leave if she's taking the piss. Unless she actually reports in sick at part and parcel of the appointment. In which case you don't have to pay her anyway.

She's taking the piss.but you equally are allowing her to do so

She’s pisstaking because she can.
That is the state of the UK today.

Id also make point of making other two members of staff feel appreciated. If you can stretch to it offer them knock off earlier one day as good will gesture. Nothing damages work place more than some people getting away with murder and everyone else picking up the work. As well as letting everyone know policy going forward. You been advertised that your various policies need updating by your insurance or something get ball rolling.

Things are so difficult with covid backlogs especially for dentist. I would try to be a bit understanding about it. If she can swap a shift or work early or late to make up for it then I would expect her to do that though.

[quote Woodmarsh]@araiwa you do realise it's not that easy if she has worked there for me than 2 years?[/quote]
And if someone hasn't done 2 years, do you think it's fine to fire them because you don't like them???