AIBU - employee always booking appointments during the work day

[Glitttter]

I am a small business owner with 3 members of staff. We've been working remotely like so many other people. 2 of them are brilliant, dedicated etc. the third woman just seems not to pull her weight, which might be the basis of why Im annoyed. However, recently, she keeps needing to start work late, disappear in the day, or leave early, for dentist/eye test/routine check up appointments.

My gripe is that she works part time, but always seems to arrange these routine appointments for days when she's working. AIBU to expect her to arrange appointments in her own time - at least mostly - instead of missing work to do so?

She needs to either book her non urgent appointments for non working hours or make up the time later on (unless you specifically need her in at certain times to answer the phone or for meetings)...but you need to actually tell her this, which it doesn't sound like you've done unless I'm missing something? Part of managing is making expectations clear.

@minipie

Dentist and eye test should happen once a year

Routine check ups - what are these? We don’t have general check ups in the UK. If it’s a check for an ongoing condition then it may be a hospital clinic and she won’t get any choice over when it is.

TBH if she seems to have multiple “eye tests” or “dentist check ups” in a short period it kind of suggests she’s doing something else. Maybe looking for another job…?

Appreciate you can’t really ask for evidence though

Once a year? I had 3 optician appointments last year within the space of 1 month, taking over 6 hours in total. One of the appointments could only be on a Thursday or Friday as I had to see a particular optician who was the only one trained to test me & my odd requirements. Each dental appointment I had also had a hygienist appointment at a later date

@Viviennemary

Get rid of her. She is a time waster. How long has she been employed. Send a letter stating her hours of work and any time off will mean a deduction from wages. And at least a weeks notice will be required. Personally I would dismiss her for gross misconduct and let her go to a tribunal.

Don't do that. You cannot deduct from pay or introduce a notice period on a whim. It has to be in her contract or formally introduced.

Just use what the law says, as above!

And it isn't gross misconduct either. It would be if, having been told not to, she carried on regardless.

@Viviennemary

Get rid of her. She is a time waster. How long has she been employed. Send a letter stating her hours of work and any time off will mean a deduction from wages. And at least a weeks notice will be required. Personally I would dismiss her for gross misconduct and let her go to a tribunal.

Oh ffs. What utter nonsense.

Whilst there are sometimes appts that are difficult to move, I'd say that's pretty rare, especially if you work part time so have more flexibility and it sounds like she's doing it a lot, so is probably taking the P.

You need to lay down the law. Her colleagues will probably thank you for it. I had a colleague who used to do this when I would book all appts possible outside if work time and it used to really annoy me that the boss let her get away with it. They will get fed up and start doing the same if you don't nip it in the bud

@Viviennemary

Get rid of her. She is a time waster. How long has she been employed. Send a letter stating her hours of work and any time off will mean a deduction from wages. And at least a weeks notice will be required. Personally I would dismiss her for gross misconduct and let her go to a tribunal.

What experience do you have that might suggest any of this is a good idea?

We have a person in our team who is the laziest person ever and works 3 days a week and even he manages to offer to swap a working day if he or his mum ( who he has to take to appointments) have an appointment.

What would really piss me off is, it's bad enough booking appointments on working days when you're only part time, but to then add on lunch!!

She's not even remotely embarrassed.

I would sit down and discuss this with her. I have found it depends on the company you work for. At the moment, i work for a company that has flexi time, you can start and finish when you want as long as your work is done as well as build up time. I have found lately that it is next to impossible to get an appointment any where or sometimes you get awkward time appointments. I just tell my boss that have to pop out ( currently WFH) and will log back in. But i make sure my work is done or covered. I often have to log in early or work late that is my job. But i love the flexibility. In previous times, i worked for a company that we had semi flexi - with core hours and if we had to leave for an appointment during core hours it was a days leave, which was so annoying as there was hours there to use. other companies were ok and others were stickler's for it. Only you know your worker and weather they are taking the piss or not. To me who suffers from a few things and requires a few docs and hospital appointments the flexibility is great but will always work up my hours

Thats why people get taken advantage of and walked over. Which is precisely why this cf is acting the way she is. Nobody is entitled to paid time off for contact lenses appontments. Say no. Besides it isnt fair to her other colleagues.

Does she make up the time she misses? That would be more than reasonable. Legally you have to give maternity appointments only.

However it does sound to me like she is doing job interviews ;)

Would you be tempted to not raise the sickness element and make the position redundant? Be careful with redundancy because you have to make a business case you can't just get rid of the weakest link.

I meant to say once you raise sickness it is the. Hard to pick someone to be made redundant.

If she has a LinkedIn profile check if she has updated it recently, has she been connecting with recruiters that is a sure sign someone is leaving.

She should be working back the missed time unless it's a maternity appointment.

@Di11y

Sounds like she doesn't have children to look after (or elderly family she spends all day with) on the days she doesn't work? In which case she should be arranging them when she's off if possible.

I'd be implementing a policy that appointments need taking from lunch breaks or time making up, unless related to pregnancy or disability.

Even if she had other commitments on her days off, that is absolutely nothing to do with the OP and on what planet would she have to make allowances for it?

@Glitttter

Hi, Thanks for your responses. It's helpful. We don't have a policy because we're so small and I've never needed one before. I like to think we're quite flexible, and if she put the time in in other ways I think I'd feel differently. But, for eg. today, she had a 'contact lens appointment' at 11am, and then tacked on some lunch, so left at 10:30, and came back at 1pm!

Honestly, I wish we could part ways, but it's not so simple because of the process I'd need to go through (can't say much more without specifics sorry). Might be time to start the process though.

Her next performance review is just before Christmas. Think I need to grit my teeth and make it clear we can't afford, and dont want, people who are here for the ride.

Unfortunately a company like yours is like winning the lottery for some employees. There will always be that one person who thinks the rules don't apply to them.

If your going to remain a small business tell all the staff you will only take them on a self employed basis. If they don't tow the line you just don't ask them back.

But if you don't want to do that you need to write a company policy and procedures file for all to adhere to. Stating the outcome of not abiding to said rules.

Alternatively give them all 90 days notice to a change in contact. Make the contact say whatever you need for her to decline signing it, effectively putting herself out of a job.

Unfortunately you have attracted one of those people that stab you in the front while smiling at your face. These people are very clever at exploiting any situation. They've had years of practice.

@Glitttter

Hi, Thanks for your responses. It's helpful. We don't have a policy because we're so small and I've never needed one before. I like to think we're quite flexible, and if she put the time in in other ways I think I'd feel differently. But, for eg. today, she had a 'contact lens appointment' at 11am, and then tacked on some lunch, so left at 10:30, and came back at 1pm!

Honestly, I wish we could part ways, but it's not so simple because of the process I'd need to go through (can't say much more without specifics sorry). Might be time to start the process though.

Her next performance review is just before Christmas. Think I need to grit my teeth and make it clear we can't afford, and dont want, people who are here for the ride.

But this is taking the piss surely? If I have to take an appointment during work hours, you work on assumption that you skip lunch or just grab a quick sandwich to make up for it. You don't go off for 90 minutes for the appointment then take lunch.

If you're lucky, maybe she's interviewing for a new job and will be leaving soon anyway!?

This is so non-controversial I don't know why you're asking. She's taking the piss. In any job, you make an appointment wherever possible for a non-working day (especially contact lenses), or at the start or end of the day, or over lunch wherever possible (eg dentist) where it is easier to lessen impact on your employer.

For appointments where you have no say over the time you are given (many NHS) then if your job allows, most decent employers will give you the time provided you make it up, or let you swap your working days if you're part time. Or you use your annual leave.

I think you need to be honest with her, explain that opticians and non emergency dental appointments should not be made during workings hours or those hours should be made up. Same for routine gp appointments though obviously if she's ill or has a matter that cannot wait you are fine with an appointment in work time

Start taking it our of her pay, ie as unpaid leave.

She'll magically be able to get appointments outside of work hours then.

@funnelfanjounnel yep!

A quick check with CA, CAB any reputable site gets you the same information - as I posted upthread.

All this takes is quick, firm discussion, followed up in writing, followed up again in any review if needed.

Dentist and eye test should be once a year😂

I wish, l seem to have never ending teeth problems even though l look after them.

This is quite an interesting thread. I’ve recently got ill health retirement, and one of the reasons was l had so many appointments to attend. I tried to fit them into non working days, but there were so many. Several of them were related to 2 long term disabilities. 6 or 7 different medical issues, endless dental, physio, counselling appointments.

I used to line managed a lady who only worked on Mondays, so as well as all the bank hols she got an additional holiday allowance as you do when pt as not all BH are paid, she then used to regularly book doctors appointments in the middle of the day! I reckon one year she attended less than 30 days all in.

OP, I agree with the HR/moderate posters here who advocate a discussion and policy in writing going forward. I would also require that the time was made up, and if Tuesdays are not so good for her, suggesting an alternative day as one of her working days.

However, there are some posts here which I find surprising. I work p/t, so I have experience of scheduling appointments. In the last 4 years, the only time I have taken off work (a school) is for my daughter's graduation this year - it did happen in person, amazingly. All my dental and optician appointments have been in school holidays or mornings/days off. To the people saying how long optician and contact lens appointments take, I am raising my eyebrows. DD1 has a summer internship and because she is working remotely, her employer has offered her a free eye test and contribution to glasses if necessary. DD has worn glasses since she was 2. Our normal Specsavers wants 2 separate appointments, one for the eye test and another for contact lenses. The closest one to home could do both together. DD booked one on a Saturday morning, so there was obviously plenty of availability, and was in and out within an hour, having chosen and paid for new frames. To the OP, your employee is seriously taking the piss with today's timings AND lunch.

Have a chat with her, with no malice, and ask whether she would like to change the hours that she works. Tell her that you've noticed her current working pattern doesn't seem suitable because it clashes with her other appointments, and as her employer you want to make sure she has a suitable working pattern.

"Routine, non-urgent GP appointments should be booked for days off too "

Many people have to BEG for a GP appointment and must accept the time they're given. I worked somewhere where you were asked to try to get an appointment at the beginning or end of the day, but it was clearly and old piece of advice and they understood how difficult it is now in some areas to get an appointment.