AIBU - employee always booking appointments during the work day

[Glitttter]

I am a small business owner with 3 members of staff. We've been working remotely like so many other people. 2 of them are brilliant, dedicated etc. the third woman just seems not to pull her weight, which might be the basis of why Im annoyed. However, recently, she keeps needing to start work late, disappear in the day, or leave early, for dentist/eye test/routine check up appointments.

My gripe is that she works part time, but always seems to arrange these routine appointments for days when she's working. AIBU to expect her to arrange appointments in her own time - at least mostly - instead of missing work to do so?

once she is on a performance improvement plan, the problems might actually stop

Possible, but not terribly likely. The OP suggested she was already "not pulling her weight" and that the appointments are more recent, and IME when someone starts down that path one type of pisstaking is generally just replaced by another

The PIP will still have to be done though, in order to get rid of her ...

You need to have a policy for these kinds of appointments.

You need to talk to her and explain she isn't doing the work she's employed to do and needs to make up the time f she can't avoid appointments during work time. I wouldn't wait until her review for this, you need to nip it in the bus now.

You need to do something Op because you can be sure that your other staff, the ones who are actually not taking the piss and working the hours you pay them for will be heartily sick of the cheeky skiver and resentment will breed. Why do you let the skiver get away with this and yet pay her full wages, whilst the honest hard working employees are covering for her. Woman up and take the necessary steps to get rid.

She's part time tell no it isn't ok. Hospital appointments are dictated to you opticians and dentists aren't!

I work full time we have to make the time up 🤷🏽‍♀️

I work part time. Sometimes it's unavoidable, especially post Covid to make appointments for specific days - you have to take what you're given.

However, I always make up the time, either swapping days, or making up the missed hours at home during the evenings.

If she's making no effort to make up the time, she's taking the piss.

Maybe she is having IVF treatment ? Maybe she doesn't feel comfortable sharing it with you. I would speak to her too. I would sound more like i am concerned about her health rather than questioning why she is away so often .

Why don't you talk to her about it informally and say that routine appointments should be made outside of working hours? If she reacts badly to that you can give her a more formal warning. It wouldn't be reasonable just to fire her without even having a conversation about it with her.

I've never booked an appointment during working hours (been working for 25+ years now). I've always done them after work (admittedly easier as I am a teacher) on my days off when I was PT, Saturday or in the holidays and I wouldn't expect to be allowed to either.

I would expect to be given time off or appointments outside my control (e.g. hospital appointments) if I needed them - as far as I know those are the only appointments I have ever known colleagues taking time off work for.

I wouldn't wait until the next performance review to sort this out. I think you policy needs changing - as you have clearly allowed this in the past and unfortunately piss-takers will take advantage.

YANBU but I’d have conversation with her. It’s better to at least try and resolve things with a trained employee than just get rid and go through job search and staff shortage stress. Perhaps she only has money for transport on the days she works so is combining trips to work with trips to appointment? Perhaps she is reducing her carbon footprint by combining appointments with work days? It can be all worked out but I’d be clear she has to make up the time, take holiday hours or schedule on a nonwork day. You do seem preoccupied with presenteeism as you’d not said much about her actual workload and productivity.

On a side note, dentists are usually 2x a year and often there is also hygienist appointments 2-4x a year. It is true that eye tests are separate from contact lens fit appointments...they can’t be done at same appointment. Eyetest and contact lens fit are usually 1x a year each.

Be careful about disability act if you fire her over NHS appointments, even GP ones. That’s a conversation to have as well to see if she needs any accommodations.

The expectation of my employer is that routine appointments, including GP, will be on a day off or as close to the beginning or end of the day as possible. Hospital appointments where you have to take what you are offered have more flexibility, but in all cases the time has to be made up.

OP, perhaps you need to write a policy for this and communicate it to all your employees so they know what's expected going forward?

Why can't she make the time up later?

Either miss lunch or add hours on later.

How many hours is she supposed to do each week?

If your going to remain a small business tell all the staff you will only take them on a self employed basis. If they don't tow the line you just don't ask them back.

Yup, that's exactly how it works.

Why on earth do people come on to forums and spout complete twaddle?

OP as others have suggested you do need to get this under control, write a policy on absence and start saying no. If she refuses or takes the piss with making appointments and tagging on lunch, disciplinary. If your company is too small to have a HR person, look into the costs of a freelance consultant who can advise as and when. ACAS will also advise on general aspects of employment law, whether you're an employer or employee.

@Lynsey5

Maybe she is having IVF treatment ? Maybe she doesn't feel comfortable sharing it with you. I would speak to her too. I would sound more like i am concerned about her health rather than questioning why she is away so often .

It does not matter if it is IVF. It is better not to know or ask. Just tell her she has to make up the time or take it out of unpaid leave, like the HR poster below suggested.

If your going to remain a small business tell all the staff you will only take them on a self employed basis. Erm, have you missed all the Uber machinations, trying to avoid going bust or closing down in some countries as it was decided that parts of the gig economy wasn't being self employed.

Office work, with set hours, salary etc, is not being self employed... OP would be dragged into a tribunal in a millisecond if they tried this, and rightfully so!

Maybe she is having IVF treatment ? Then she has to balance her desire for secrecy with her employers need to balance their books, cover her absences. You can't have it both ways - not least because no employer is actually a mind reader!

@ ThorsLeftNut surely though if you only work part-time you would offer to work an alternate day if you knew you could only go on a Thursday? I mean I recently had treatment that left me feeling awful, would I want to return to work? I would say I have an appointment and offer to work a different day.

Sorry OP, you sound like a ditherer. She’s not pulling her weight and you are saying it ‘might’ be time to start the process to get rid of her. With some people, they will take you for a ride if you let them and that’s what is happening here.

I'm confused .
Why doesn't she have to make up the time she is missing?

If I did this unless it's an antenatal clinic. The time wouldn't be paid I assumed.

@eeyore228

@ ThorsLeftNut surely though if you only work part-time you would offer to work an alternate day if you knew you could only go on a Thursday? I mean I recently had treatment that left me feeling awful, would I want to return to work? I would say I have an appointment and offer to work a different day.

Or you wouldn't get paid for the Thursday you were rostered in?

Surely you don't pay her for the appt time?

@minipie

Eye test and contact lens check are always done together IMO. Same with dental check up and hygienist. And if she has two non working days and the weekend some should definitely be within those days - not all but some! She is taking the piss.

Not in my experience - my nearest Specsavers does them separately (to the extent that you have to book in a different shop in the same half mile area for a contact lens check) and every dentist I've had in the last 20 years has insisted upon a yearly dental check up and only then can you make an appointment for the hygienist - they then tell you how many appointments you can have with them before you must the dentist again.

I've got one appointment this week and five others in three days next, all of which are NHS You Get What You're Given and if I don't take them, I will be discharged/knocked off the appointments altogether or have to wait about six months for another appointment, depending upon which service it is (Physio, Physio Rehab, Hospital Podiatry, GP Nurse and GP). I had an eye test a while ago after not being able to book one for a Saturday at all - your guess is as good as mine as to when I'll be able to access a dentist again. They've all happened in one week not by choice, but because it's a week that has presumably been opened up to more patients as well as being lower demand because it's school holidays.

MIL also had the issue that the only dentist in her rural area that accepted NHS patients only did them between 9 and 11 daily, the more convenient, early morning-lunchtime-afternoon-evening and Saturday appointments were all for private patients.

I used to work 4 days a week and always tried to have appt on day off but sometimes not possible and i either had annual leave, went in late made time off of left early made time up , or lost couple hrs pay

Just how many doctor/dentist/etc does she have?

@ApplyWithin not always easy to change nhs appt as sometimes its months before you can get another , or some have to have regular check ups at set times and you don't get loads of choice